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  1. #1
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    Jul 2015
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    Default It's getting really tough out there. A song of hate to American Pickers

    Went to an auction a couple of weeks ago, which had a predominantly metal engineering theme. There were some rogue lots though, including a pair of Stanley 51 shooting planes.

    So I smelled opportunity and drove three hours to get there. Planes looked unspectacular but in generally good condition; but handles on both broken and cutters on both bent and worn down. Both had good frogs though, so I still smelled opportunity.

    Until they went on the block.

    First one got knocked down at $375AU after spirited bidding (then add 18% buyers premium). I commiserated with the losing bidder, observing that at that price the buyer would want to have a good 52 shooting board to go with it. The guy looked at me like I was a messy stain on his shoe and proudly informed me that a 51 was worth at least $1000, and that he was going in even harder after the second one. Which he did.

    So. 500ish for each plane. Another 100+ for an appropriate era No 6 to canabilise for the wood and the cutter. God knows how much for a board - they are as rare as rocking horse poo because the average woody of the time would make his own. Even rarer in any kind of decent condition.

    And after all of that you'd still have to be restore it well, and be patient and well connected to sell for the premium price.

    American Pickers has a lot to answer for.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Kew, Vic
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    1,064

    Default

    GV,

    I thought about going to the Bendigo auction, but I’m not into restoring tools and I could see from the pics that they needed a fair bit of work. Thanks for reporting back on the prices.

    Brian

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney
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    2,205

    Default

    These have always brought at least $1k with a board.
    Main prob is broken frogs from carrying the board with the plane on it.
    A few degrees of tilt and there goes your plane.
    I did get a some frogs cast a few decades ago, Same with the hold downs.
    Best one I picked up in 1980 was an early heavy complete unit from a TAFE swapped it for a new Record #20. That was interesting swapping a new Record copy of a Stanley plane because Stanley no longer made them.
    That went to the Stanley collection in Meibourne, no idea what happened to that stash after they went offshore.
    A mate scored one at an eastern suburbs school fete for $50.
    The boards get thrown out with the old school benches they’re screwed to.
    People don’t know what they are, just another old piece of iron.
    H.
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Brisbane (western suburbs)
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    77
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    12,094

    Default

    I developed a similar dislike of 'collectors' many years ago, gv, when the prices of tools started climbing skywards. However, I've managed to catch a few very nice scores before they got their sticky hands on them, and I have slowly built up a very satisfactory tool cupboard, so I'm more philosophical, now...

    Until the mid-70s, you could pick up good old planes for absurdly cheap prices at garage sales & junk shops. Specialty planes were even cheaper in the scheme of things, because no-one wanted such stone-age stuff that just spelled 'hard yakka'. With power tools like routers becoming much more common & inexpensive, why would you bust a gut & risk blisters? I remember when a colleague, who described himself as a woodworker, sold his couple of beautiful old bench planes because he couldn't see any use for them now he had a lovely new 'lectric planer! I confess I considered going down the same path myself, as my workshop time shrank & the 'to do' list kept growing...

    But we can't blame 'collectors' entirely, the upsurge in woodworking as a hobby, & the resurgence of hand-tools has also contributed to driving up prices. Simple economics dictates that more competition for scarce commodities is going to drive prices up. The catastrophic decline in quality of hand tools from the 60s on didn't help, either.

    I guess we just have to accept that tool-collecting foks have as much right to exist as us tool-users. At least the tools are being preserved & not going to landfill as so many already have. But it's hard to love thine enemy when he/she pushes the price of a tool you could use into the range of absurdity, then puts it in a glass case.......

    Cheers,
    IW

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    3,277

    Default

    While collector prices are annoying I can at least respect collectors for preserving tools. Hat I don’t like are decorators that use old tools as decoration and when that goes out of fashion will dump them for the next trend.

    I was at an auction recently where an antique printing press was for sale. It was in pristine working condition and quite beautiful with its japanned black ornate castings. A couple who do printing apparently came all the way from SA to VIC but were out bid by a buyer who bought it as a garden ornament.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  7. #6
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    Mar 2004
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    Brisbane (western suburbs)
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    Default

    That's a story with a sad ending, Dale. If there was any justice in the world it would surely have gone to the couple!
    IW

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wonthaggi
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    I developed a similar dislike of 'collectors' many years ago, gv, when the prices of tools started climbing skywards. However, I've managed to catch a few very nice scores before they got their sticky hands on them, and I have slowly built up a very satisfactory tool cupboard, so I'm more philosophical, now...

    Until the mid-70s, you could pick up good old planes for absurdly cheap prices at garage sales & junk shops. Specialty planes were even cheaper in the scheme of things, because no-one wanted such stone-age stuff that just spelled 'hard yakka'.
    There are a few happy hunting grounds left.

    For the last 5 years I have done an annual trip to either far east Victoria, or far West Vic / Eastern SA. Both regions relatively remote from large cities; and both regions where many original settlers would have packed a crate full of cabinet making tools in preference to a wagon load of furniture. Picking an 8 day period where I can find two or more farm clearing sales advertised: I do the sales, chat to people in small town pubs (hard work that) about who in town is a hoarder, and find a surprising amount of value in small town second hand shops. Each time I easily make a handsome profit on the cost of the holiday by selling the stuff I don't accidentally keep for myself.

    Very rare to encounter a dealer or collector, although at one farm sale I met an interior decorator based in Toorak. His client had sent him to to buy the wool scales, which she wanted as the centerpiece of her new guest bathroom. She paid $1200 for the scales, 72 hours at his substantial hourly rate, travel expenses and truck hire. And he believed that from past performance, she'd have him ripping it all out again within two years and rebuilding in the latest fad.

  9. #8
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    Dec 2007
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    Sydney
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    Default

    I’ve had a query re availability of frogs to suit #51 planes.
    These are a type 3 frog and easily broken.
    I did get a few sand cast in iron and sourced the taps from the US.
    I also started to make the epoxy die to inject wax into for investment castings.
    I also started on both #113 rear handles and the holdown for the #52.
    Life got in the way and tool freaks being the tite as this stalled sometime last century.
    Here’s a pic of the partline buck and half completed die in Ciba Geigy gelcoat with Al fill back up.
    I gave the last #51 and unmachined frog plus a printers shoot board the Bob C the pres of the fool club.
    Jim Davey and another TTTG clown bought the taps.
    H.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    383

    Default

    Buying a Stanley Type 51 as a user plane at the auction prices in the 1st posting makes no sense to me when a Veritas Shooting Board plane can be bought new from axminster.co.uk for NZ $519 (= AU $470). However the shipping from the UK to Australia would probably add another AU $60 and then GST at 10% on top of that.
    However the buyer would then have a plane ready to go that required no fettling (apart from sharpening the blade).
    New Zealand

  11. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paul.cleary View Post
    Buying a Stanley Type 51 as a user plane at the auction prices in the 1st posting makes no sense to me when a Veritas Shooting Board plane can be bought new from axminster.co.uk for NZ $519 (= AU $470). However the shipping from the UK to Australia would probably add another AU $60 and then GST at 10% on top of that.
    However the buyer would then have a plane ready to go that required no fettling (apart from sharpening the blade).
    I for one was looking to buy one as an investment....

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Africa
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    950

    Default

    I’d buy one just to have it. I’d use it once or twice to prove that it does work and then just enjoy owning it.

    Assuming that I could comfortaby afford it, of course.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia.
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    Default

    Looking at my notes in the Auction catalogue for Gollants Auction at Casltemaine on Sept 15th, Peter McB told me that one of the 51 planes had a busted frog. They were offered up late in the sale #698 of 762 items as "sold per each" and they got up to $375...the exact number Pete estimated earlier in the day. The pair were offered to the high bidder, and he took one as his purchase, and the next one went on the block, and realized $250.00.
    If you want to buy vintage tools TO USE, take this advice, it works for me.
    Find a tool collector to befriend, and you will never be short of good user tools that ARE NOT COLLECTIBLE for next to no money!

    Melbourne Matty

  14. #13
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by L.S.Barker1970 View Post
    Looking at my notes in the Auction catalogue for Gollants Auction at Casltemaine on Sept 15th, Peter McB told me that one of the 51 planes had a busted frog. They were offered up late in the sale #698 of 762 items as "sold per each" and they got up to $375...the exact number Pete estimated earlier in the day. The pair were offered to the high bidder, and he took one as his purchase, and the next one went on the block, and realized $250.00.
    If you want to buy vintage tools TO USE, take this advice, it works for me.
    Find a tool collector to befriend, and you will never be short of good user tools that ARE NOT COLLECTIBLE for next to no money!

    Melbourne Matty
    Ta.

    Maybe one day you'll be able to share your advice on items for sale that you have actually seen yourself at an auction you actually attended.

    I'm sure that will be a treat for us all.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia.
    Posts
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post
    Ta.

    Maybe one day you'll be able to share your advice on items for sale that you have actually seen yourself at an auction you actually attended.

    I'm sure that will be a treat for us all.
    I'm not quite understanding what you are talking about.
    I went to the auction with Peter McB, and we spent the whole day chatting with others there.
    Lots of my time is spent sharing information about old machinery and matching buyers with sellers.

    To imply I wasn't there is presumptuous. And your sarcastic response above is a bit nasty.

    About three weeks prior I spent two days helping my good friend Paul (the Vendor) set up that Auction at Castlemaine.

    I'm afraid you have a fertile imagination, and have misrepresented the outcome of the sale of those two items. The actual sale result was $375 for the first, and $250 for the second #51 plane + comms (as confirmed to me just 30 minutes ago by the vendor).

    Then you run a fallacious argument, running down an imaginary tool collector using a patently bogus $1000 value, and someone "going in even harder after the second one. Which he did"
    That is fiction...it just did not happen. The second plane with the broken frog went for $250.00 after 3 or 4 bids.

    PMCB was standing behind a post waiting to pounce, but according to Pete, it went too high for a couple of poor condition broken planes. We waited for them, otherwise we would have been at the pub!

    Melbourne Matty.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    383

    Default

    As the poster who mentioned the idea of buying a Veritas shooting board plane, I'll have to retract that idea given the prices as stated in the post above. $250 vs $500 makes it a reasonable alternative to hunt down a replacement frog (better economics if the buyer already has the bits)
    New Zealand

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