Thread: G & T Gray backsaw

Hi - you saw looks great and it it nice to hear is cuts well. I assume it is all easy to start at the high flem.

One issue with high flem- 45 degree is there is not much tooth left at higher TPI's. This makes it hard to apply set and to maintain the teeth. At higher TPI (8 or less) there might be enough tooth to apply set. I will take a look at the saw I filed to 8 TPI and venture an opinion, simpler than tapering the blade.

Hi Martin. Setting the saw was tricky. I have a set in which I have filed the hammer down to help with smaller teeth but there wasn't a lot of tooth left to move. Seems to have gone okay. Blade has 11 TPI.

As for saw history, company was around from mid 1800's to 1929, according to a thread on backsaw.net.

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

As for saw history, company was around from mid 1800's to 1929, according to a thread on backsaw.net.

MA

According to Barley's book the original company was Jonathon Gray and Sons, but the sons, Gordon and Thomas, split off in 1849 to form G & T Gray. The brand lasted until 1929, but had been taken over by John Elsworth & Sons Ltd (primarily a bandsaw blade maker) in 1897.

Regards
Paul

MA

A couple of G & T Gray backsaws. These have brass backs and split nuts.

G and T Gray backsaws.jpgG and T Gray large backsaw .jpgG and T Gray small backsaw.jpgG and T Gray etch.jpg

I have described on the last pic (if you click to enlarge) an "etch", which is of course a stamp.

Did your saw have any handle at all or was it missing completely?

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul. Gorgeous saws. No handle, I bought it for $8 off Ebay as a blade only. I had seen those logos online, I assume they are later than mine? Have you got the book that Simon (Barley??) wrote on English sawmakers? Split nuts would have looked good.

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MA

I only have his "British Saws and Saw Makers from C1660." I went back to the entry as I had not paid much attention to the stamp. The circled stamp as on my saws appears to be early and is listed as c.1860

A curved stamp similar to that of your saw, except "warranted" is missing from the left hand side opposite "cast steel" (it may be there very faint but I can't see it in the pic) was placed c.1900.

The British saw makers appeared to persist with split nuts for much longer than the Americans and used them into the early 1900s.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi all. Inspired by another forumite (Simplicity), I have made a handle for my, until now, handle-less saw. I have made a few with Lamb's tongues now, but I was trying for the more angled version. I have mostly succeeded (modifying an existing template), but I think that the opening at the bottom could be of a greater radius, giving a more dramatic curl leading into the LT. Next time!! Other than this minor improvement, the handle (made with Fijian Mahogany and some ex Disston saw nuts) fits my hand beautifully and is such a nice wood to hold.

I also experimented with my sharpening. A few things I have read have talked about much steeper fleam angles than I have used previously. This time, I have maintained the 20° rake but gone to a 35° fleam angle. The teeth now have the double bevel (one cutting edge and one the result of making the cutting edge on the tooth behind). I also took the time to shape the teeth before sharpening (I usually combine the 2). It cuts aggressively in both softwood (Oregon) and hardwood (Spotted Gum). The teeth tended to leave a "stripey" cut, definite horizontal ridges. I also stoned one side to plumb the cut (but this feels pretty subjective). Maybe I will get up the courage to go all the way to 45° on the next one.

Also, has anyone heard of this saw maker?

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MA,

Firstly I did “nothing” but in my defence I’m 5/6 so it’s an automatic child response,

But that’s an excellent outcome, you now have a working saw,if I think the saw your referring too that I made, it’s still not done but I have really really really good excuse this time.

(Beat you Ian [emoji6])

Lamp tongues are not as easy to visualise, as they first seem, I’m still struggling an I’m still not 100 percent, so i would say well done,but ye I agree maybe easy that curve a bit.

Cheers Matt.

That's the one Matt. Your handles hang is different to mine but your LT has a much nicer hook to it. Happy to hear you will get on with yours.

No warranted on mine Paul. Nice steel to file

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Hi MA, good to see you are still at this tool-making/fettling business - I guess once we are infected it's a life-long condition, but take heart, you are more likely to die with it than of it....

I am watching yours & Martin's experiments with fleam angles with great interest, having been down that road a little way myself. I won't prejudice you with my opinions just yet, I reckon it's better you do your own research & reach your own conclusions which may well end up quite different from mine.

But one thing I will throw into the mix is that imo, trying to put set on 45* fleam teeth might be defeating the purpose. One of the advantages of a no-set saw is that you don't introduce the minor lateral variations in the tooth tips that cause the scratches on the face of a cut made with a typical 'set' saw. I think the rationale behind the acute angle is to make the no-set saw run more freely (as I pointed out somewhere recently, even a non-tapered saw runs better without set using that tooth profile). I didn't actually try setting mine, I thought the thin tips of such teeth would make them very hard to set accurately using a pliers-type set so didn't attempt it.

Anyhoo, keep up the good work!

As to what looks best with that bit of wood running between the toe of the grip to the cheeks (we need a good descriptive name for it; "return" doesn't really do it for me), there have been various styles, any or all of which have their own eye appeal. The steep curve you put on yours gives it more 'life', I tend to be much more conservative, partly out of fear that curving it too much introduces more cross-grain into it & could make it more fragile. However, that may be a baseless fear, it's remarkable how few saws one sees with that part of the handle busted, but plenty with the top or bottom horn amputated!

I started tentatively with lamb tongues, partly because of the bone-hard woods I choose for handles, like bull oak:
2 Bull oak a.jpg

This one is "swamp oak" which is slightly easier to deal with, & got the full treatment:
1 Swamp oak.jpg

Thanks Ian. The cutting action felt more aggressive but in a good way, with the 35° fleam and very minimal set. Another set of lovely handles and I particularly like the "up curl" (it could catch on) on the swamp oak one. That's what I am after. I also note how you have carried the LT into the "cheek" of the handle, as opposed to just kissing it. Very subtle. The more things I read about saw sharpening (and particularly the more images that go along with the text) the more I see this double bevel on crosscut teeth. As mentioned previously, this is the 1st time I have achieved this "look". I will keep experimenting.

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