Thread: Hall table plans, cabriole legs and spoke shaves: HELP PLEASE!

Hi chook,
Over the last couple of years there have been two or three plans for Demi-lune tables in the Australian woodworking magazines but none with cabriole legs.
In my only attempt at cabriole legs I bought a spokeshave but did not have much susses at mastering it, so laid into them with with a Wasp sander on the drill press.IMG_0007.jpg Which did the job so a spoke shave is not absolutely indispensable but don't tell the hand tool lot I said so, I have upset my quota of people for this period.
Best of luck, sounds like a fun project
Regards

Originally Posted by A Duke

Hi chook,
Over the last couple of years there have been two or three plans for Demi-lune tables in the Australian woodworking magazines but none with cabriole legs.
In my only attempt at cabriole legs I bought a spokeshave but did not have much susses at mastering it, so laid into them with with a Wasp sander on the drill press.IMG_0007.jpg Which did the job so a spoke shave is not absolutely indispensable but don't tell the hand tool lot I said so, I have upset my quota of people for this period.
Best of luck, sounds like a fun project
Regards

Don't be too worried about upsetting hand tool people. I will let you in on a secret. I have a table saw, a jointer and a thicknesser and so long as the power company produces electricity I will have fun playing with them. I will have a look at the site you mentioned but if I can something as nice as yours I will be very happy indeed. It sounds like fun to me but there is the potential for problems because it will be on the boundaries of my ability.

Originally Posted by chook

it will be on the boundaries of my ability.

Not when you're finished.
Paul

Re. the spokeshaves, this is one tool above all that you need to try before you buy. The feel and operation is very subjective - the way it fits in your hand, the shape of the handles, and so on. No amount of reviews will tell you this.

I have one of the Veritas curved sole shaves (A2 blade), but really don't like the shape of the body (can't get thumbs low enough) or the shape of the handles (which can be changed). Veritas also have a low angle shave which is a bit clunky to set up, but works well when its going.

Tried one of HNT Gordon's (new design) shaves, and don't get on with that at all. The older, bigger, chunkier HNT shaves were a better shape IMHO.

The Boggs shaves from LN are good - tried these once, and worked really well for me.

Then of course you have older Stanley, Record, etc. These can be substantially improved by replacing the blade with an A2 item - Jim Davey might be able to help you with some tuned up shaves along these lines.

Actually, I was just looking at Jim Davey's website and found these:

Jim Davey Planes & Sharpening - eShop - Sales

Look to be a nice shape, wth A2 blades, but I haven't had chance to try one.

Chook, cabriolet legs look intimidating, for sure, but are actually quite easy to make. Working out the right shape from scratch, isn't, so if these are your first, try to get a leg template off a leg you like the look of. The trick is to get the right amount of bulge in the front, with the right sweep to the ankle & foot - too much or too little make it look very awkward. Once you have the template you want, the rest is very straightforward. Stick template on one side, saw off the waste (as neatly as you can, saves cleanup later), then stick waste back on with masking tape or similar, re-attach template to adjacent side so that the front touches the same corner as the first side, saw off waste again. Bingo, you have something that looks very like a cabriolet leg already!

To shape the leg from here, spokeshaves have limited value imo. This is one job where you are far better off working with rasps & files. This is partly because there are so many changes in grain direction to contend with, and partly because a good rasp is easier to control while removing large amounts of material quickly. Cleaning up after the coarser rasps with finer rasps, files, scrapers & cloth-backed paper is my preferred method.

Couple of other hints: Before you do anything to your leg blanks, cut the skirt mortises while the leg is still square - much easier to hold the leg nice & steady. After sawing the basic shape, the easiest way I know to hold the leg for subsequent shaping is to set it in a bar-clamp which in turn can be held in the front vice - allows you to get at the whole length of the leg comfortably.

I've had a pair of Veritas small shaves for quite a while, now. For many years prior to getting them, I had a couple of Stanley 150s. At first I found those small round handles awkward, and intended to make my own asap. However, for various reasons I didn't get around to it straight away, & I've become used to them. Someday I will probably make 'improved' handles, but they are not a high priority atm. They are very nice tools, & capable of fine work. The old 150s get used for the rough, heavy stuff, for which their large mouths make them more suited.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Chook, cabriolet legs look intimidating, for sure, but are actually quite easy to make.... Once you have the template you want, the rest is very straightforward.

What about making four that look like they all belong on the same piece of furniture?
If I ever get around to trying this, it might be a one-legged table.
Paul

The tip I got was that the maker is the only one that can put them together and check them against each other, once they are on opposite corners the nit pickers are snookered.

Regards

My dad used to be given an hour each to produce cab legs when he was doing his time , he'd tell me this whenever he saw me doing them I reckon this type was always an hour and ten minutes to get right for me any way.
A band saw helps . For me it has always been , first Band saw, spoke shave and chisels then scrapers , scrapers were the curved ones I made myself.
I use a few gouges as well, It's harder without them for this type of pad foot
And its all about turning a square into a round mostly , get the square sections right ,finger guage out the divisions with a pencil to mark out the corners and turn the square into an octagon , cut off the corners so you now have an octagonal leg and shave it round from there. I think there are some good articles in the fine woodworking range of books that go into a lot of detail.

Originally Posted by IanW

Chook, cabriolet legs look intimidating, for sure, but are actually quite easy to make. Working out the right shape from scratch, isn't, so if these are your first, try to get a leg template off a leg you like the look of. The trick is to get the right amount of bulge in the front, with the right sweep to the ankle & foot - too much or too little make it look very awkward. Once you have the template you want, the rest is very straightforward. Stick template on one side, saw off the waste (as neatly as you can, saves cleanup later), then stick waste back on with masking tape or similar, re-attach template to adjacent side so that the front touches the same corner as the first side, saw off waste again. Bingo, you have something that looks very like a cabriolet leg already!

To shape the leg from here, spokeshaves have limited value imo. This is one job where you are far better off working with rasps & files. This is partly because there are so many changes in grain direction to contend with, and partly because a good rasp is easier to control while removing large amounts of material quickly. Cleaning up after the coarser rasps with finer rasps, files, scrapers & cloth-backed paper is my preferred method.

Couple of other hints: Before you do anything to your leg blanks, cut the skirt mortises while the leg is still square - much easier to hold the leg nice & steady. After sawing the basic shape, the easiest way I know to hold the leg for subsequent shaping is to set it in a bar-clamp which in turn can be held in the front vice - allows you to get at the whole length of the leg comfortably.

I've had a pair of Veritas small shaves for quite a while, now. For many years prior to getting them, I had a couple of Stanley 150s. At first I found those small round handles awkward, and intended to make my own asap. However, for various reasons I didn't get around to it straight away, & I've become used to them. Someday I will probably make 'improved' handles, but they are not a high priority atm. They are very nice tools, & capable of fine work. The old 150s get used for the rough, heavy stuff, for which their large mouths make them more suited.

Cheers,

I am off on the hunt for some old Stanley's Thanks for the help.

Originally Posted by pmcgee

What about making four that look like they all belong on the same piece of furniture?
If I ever get around to trying this, it might be a one-legged table.
Paul

Very funny but the fact is that I think I can make one leg but making four that look the same will be the trick.

I'd really like to try to make table legs like those. The shapes make me think I'd be pulling the s/s in both directions with the curves in an out of the grain. Maybe I try in Birch

I posted a thread some time back, in "Sharpening", to show how I do S/S blades. I agree = try before you buy if you can. For the postage, I'd be happy to send you a $50 Stanley "crapshave." I have a pair of $14.95 Samona that hold an edge.

From my Kitchen Stick Project, # strokes to round off a corner X length X 4 corners X #some 70 finished, I estimate that I have pulled those Samona through more than 1km of good, hard, dry birch. Easy.

Attended a panel beating course a few years ago, made a hub cap, the tutor said it was very good, but the hard part was going to be to make another three the same. Any one need a hub cap for a unicycle?
BG.

Originally Posted by chook

..... I think I can make one leg but making four that look the same will be the trick.

Well, as A Duke says, Chook, they've got to be pretty far 'off' for it to be noticeable on all but the smallest table. You work from a template to lay out the leg, and if you 'finger-gauge' guide lines for the shaping as Rob mentioned, you should get them pretty close to the same. I couldn't match Rob's "hour & 10 minutes" per leg, by a long shot, but might be able to finish a set in a very long day! The hardest part for me is always the foot, because you lose most of your reference lines when you start shaping them, & a lot of judgement is called for. Depends on the foot, of course, you can turn the foot, & it's quite easy, but I don't like the look of them, because you can't get the same sweep into the ankle the same way you can doing it all by hand.

This is the foot shape I like most: walnut coffee table.jpg

On short legs like these, there isn't a lot of work above the foot, because they sweep into the ears, so there isn't as much rounding to do on the upper parts. For the first set or two of cabriole legs I made, I wimped out on applying 'ears', but they do add that extra touch, and were not as hard to make as I feared. Most things turn out to be less difficult than we fear.....

Cheers,