Thread: Hand saw handle grain

Hi Delbs,

From what I understand the grain should better run this way.



I understand you are using the NG Rosewood just to practise right? Wasn't sure if that would be the right choice for final product. Surely some others with more knowledge will comment as well.

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Thanks for the feedback. Well yeah just selected NG rosewood due to the qty of approximately sized pieces I have to save me resawing too much. This is my first handle I've made so I was going to finish it and just see how it turns out to use.

Happy to use it as a trial. I don't have much exquisite figured timber so at this stage will be happy with a handle that fits and is strong. Can always make more later

Cheers
Nathan

Did you also check these out? Here you can download different templates even in various sizes. And they indicate the grain direction you should use. I used one of their template for a new handle for my tenon saw.

Blackburn Tools - Saw handle templates



Although I used a template from TGIAG

http://tgiag.com/saw-handle-scans.html

Looking forward to your new handle. Let us know how you go.

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Nathan - the second picture in your first post is the correct orientation for a saw. You'll only have breakage issues with a saw like that if you drop the saw.

I have also followed the TGIAG templates for grain direction with great results. But on one of your other questions, I have two Spear and Jackson back saws that have a metal reinforcing bar through the handgrip portion of the handle. Sorry I can’t get a photo - the saws are in a box in a container And hopefully soon to be in a truck to be delivered to my new home in Victoria this Wednesday. Two months without my tools has been tough.
Bruce

Originally Posted by delbs

I overlooked grain orientation

Hi Nathan. I intentionally did the same early on when replacing a bench plane handle. I was trying to avoid the split potential across the handle (where they all seem to go) but I only moved the weak spot to another location and it split more easily. Now I assume that the standard has been developed for good reason and follow suit. At the moment I am making some handles out of old curly grained (almost fiddleback) redgum. Its beautiful but I have already had to perform one emergency glue up. Not in a critical spot but following the grain.

I reckon Grain direction depends on whether it it is an enclosed handle or not

Clkett's suits an enclosed handle because the handle won't flex
BUT
Delbs second right hand photo is better for an open handle.

Originally Posted by Cklett

Did you also check these out? Here you can download different templates even in various sizes. And they indicate the grain direction you should use. I used one of their template for a new handle for my tenon saw.

Blackburn Tools - Saw handle templates


http://tgiag.com/saw-handle-scans.html

Looking forward to your new handle. Let us know how you go.

Thanks for this Cklett, i forgot about the templates from BB tools. ive printed out a variety of them and will compare to what ive drawn out. i own a little bandsaw that would be perfect for this kind of thing but the rubber on the wheels has perished so another thing ill look at later. will crack on by hand.

The brass nuts are also in bad shape also so may need to put in an order for some replacements from BB tools, cant seem to find any forsale in Aus

Thanks for the replies.

Originally Posted by Cklett

I understand you are using the NG Rosewood just to practise right? Wasn't sure if that would be the right choice for final product. Surely some others with more knowledge will comment as well.

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This may be a silly question, but why isn't NG Rosewood suitable for a saw handle?

Nice handle for your tenon saw there, CK!

delbs, looking forward to seeing your finished handle. I've seen some of your posts lately and it appears that you've gone right down the rabbit hole on this hand tool stuff.

Cheers,
Andy

Originally Posted by BobL

I reckon Grain direction depends on whether it it is an enclosed handle or not

Clkett's suits an enclosed handle because the handle won't flex
BUT
Delbs second right hand photo is better for an open handle.

That's a good point that it could differ depending on the type of handle your making.

I've printed a variety of large and extra large templates to live in the shed but will kick on with what I've drawn in the second photo.

Want to finish making one and test this out. If it fails in the lower portion guess it's a good chance to strengthen it or tweak the grain angle and start again

Think I may have to take two of the brass half split nuts though from another saw as the originals threads are trashed

Much depends on the type of handle as to how the grain is orientated. The principle is that weak spots should have long graining running through them. Having said that the guard on an enclosed handle is inherently weak, but as it is only additional bracing we live with the grain being short.

Still, certain parts of the saw are always weak and here I am thinking of the horns. Some timbers are better than others. Commercially, back in the day, timber was selected for it's workability. In the US Apple was the premium wood with Beech used for the secondary models. In the UK Beech was the preferred timber. In the US Mahogany, Walnut, Cherry and occasionally Birch were also used. Later on, by the 1950s, almost any hardwood tended to be used and was coloured to resemble the other timbers.

Brazilian Rosewood was reserved for the most prestigious saws of all. Atkins entered the fray with their No.400 (and No.401) and Disston followed soon after in 1914 with the D115. This brings me to New Guinea Rosewood. It would be fine, but does not have the same level of appeal as the Brazilian variant. Jarrah is an excellent timber for handles but much harder to work than the traditional timbers.

Having said that I did use the New Guinea timber once as replacement for Brazilian Rosewood, which is all but unobtainable today.

Not exactly a Victory, but a small win. (woodworkforums.com)

Regards
Paul

In the thread above I said the D115 was introduced in 1915. Not quite correct. It became the Anniversary saw in 1915, but was first made in 1914 and in 1917 was designated the Victory saw. It was always the D115 or the D-115 after 1928 or the D15/ D-15 if it was the straight back version.

I might have to qualify my question whether NGR is a good.timber for saw handles or not. I must admit that I made that statement to see what others with more knowledge than me think.
I recently thought using NGR as infill for.planes and did some test work. It didn't feel right to me. Which is a completely unscientific and objective reason for not using it. It somehow did not feel hard/strong enough to me and too light. And therefore I did not end up using it.

With Paul's explanation I might revisit that.

Thanks for that.

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Thanks Bushmiller for your response, ive mentioned it was due to qty of NG rosewood i have as to why i started down this path. Second to that was also due to the qty of Jarrah i have i wanted to have a practice run first on the NG rosewood so i didnt potentially waste any Jarrah.

Now that ive broken this one, i do agree with Cklett also that its very light weight and a tad on the weak side.

Perhaps i should be using Jarrah to practice on and sourcing something hard and nice grain appearance for future handles to have a better experience overall

Cheers,
Nathan

Originally Posted by delbs

Thanks Bushmiller for your response, ive mentioned it was due to qty of NG rosewood i have as to why i started down this path. Second to that was also due to the qty of Jarrah i have i wanted to have a practice run first on the NG rosewood so i didnt potentially waste any Jarrah.

Now that ive broken this one, i do agree with Cklett also that its very light weight and a tad on the weak side.

Perhaps i should be using Jarrah to practice on and sourcing something hard and nice grain appearance for future handles to have a better experience overall

Cheers,
Nathan

Nathan

It is your saw and you should go with whatever you wish. The only qualification to this is to just check it will in fact be strong enough. Most hardwoods are plenty strong enough, but some just feel right and I can quite understand why CKlett decided not to use NGR in his plane build, for example. In that case we are particularly chasing weight. In some ways the Jarrah (which I have never used myself, primarily because I don't have any ) could be considered similar to Forest Red Gum, which I use extensively. The similarity ends with the red colour, but they are both challenging to work being only a little softer than steel!

Even in the commercial world there were anomalies. One that I often point to are the handsaws that featured a metal plate, presumeably for reinforcing. They were normally at the lower end of the model line. Almost without exception between all the manufacturers they used Walnut: Even the exceptions, which used some other hardwood, had a "Walnut finish." A mystery.

If you like the look of a timber and can deal with the difficulty of working with it, you should do it. There is a world of difference between what is commercially practical (think sensible) and what we as hobby woodworkers can indulge in. In fact in Australia we have a large range of timbers that make very good and very impressive handles. The difficulty can be with finding large enough pieces to make a handle. Your open handle saw will not be too difficult as it uses a lot less timber than a full size handsaw for example.

Regards
Paul