Thread: Wanted....Hand plane tuition, SA

There’s a “bridge” that sits under the belt assembly. The pivot heights are adjustable to get the angle in the ball park when initially setting up.

2F8AC178-3FA1-4EBB-809C-9D777C30FC9F.jpg

A rod is placed through the pivots

D637787C-1DD0-444D-BE1E-B17385C1040C.jpg

The Trojan honing guide was modified to it would connect to the rod

2139058C-7DE1-414D-8B75-9F1A83CDFD0B.jpg

All set up and ready to go. I place a magnetic angle display on the blade then adjust the blade in the guide to get the correct angle.

8062E9A8-4B0D-481E-8840-5C32B7D17D20.jpg

There was a thread on here many years ago on using a belt sander as a sharpener. I think Derek may have started it but that was before the great picture loss the forum suffered. I used the method myself for a while. The crossbar was a kitcken drawer handle from bunnings. It actually is really good at doing primary bevels. One thing to be aware of however is fire risk if that machine is also used for wood sanding. Sparks and fine wood dust are a bad mix as I found out.
Regards
John

Originally Posted by Lappa

There’s a “bridge” that sits under the belt assembly. The pivot heights are adjustable to get the angle in the ball park when initially setting up.

2F8AC178-3FA1-4EBB-809C-9D777C30FC9F.jpg

A rod is placed through the pivots

D637787C-1DD0-444D-BE1E-B17385C1040C.jpg

The Trojan honing guide was modified to it would connect to the rod

2139058C-7DE1-414D-8B75-9F1A83CDFD0B.jpg

All set up and ready to go. I place a magnetic angle display on the blade then adjust the blade in the guide to get the correct angle.

8062E9A8-4B0D-481E-8840-5C32B7D17D20.jpg

I have the same sander. How did you attach/fix the base of the jig to the sander housing? Just double sided tape? Or not at all?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

David Weaver - DW on this forum - has in the last year or so developed a new method of sharpening and everyone who has tried it has been rewarded with a new level of sharpness for very little effort, very short time expended and minimal money, in fact very little money. Some experienced users have found that sharpening plane blades can be tricky but sharpening chisels is a very quick simple operation everybody who tries it comes to grips with straightaway.

He was pursuing a method that enabled softer blades to stay sharper longer and apparently it does this very well.

This his YT channel David W - YouTube

Using a Buffer to Gain Chisel Durability Without Dulling an Edge or Increasing Cut Resistance - YouTube

The Unicorn Edge - What's Happening with the Buffer? What abrasive? - YouTube

Unicorn makes junk plane irons pearls - YouTube

One more method to buff plane irons - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYm77Hwlifg

I think there can two ways to view David's methods for a beginner and that is to learn sharpening that works and is SHARP or to dive right in and forget the rest because for sure that is going to be the cheapest and it just about guarantees a good result in short time with minimal expense. David is most probably one of the most informed people, well above the YT experts who think they are and he has a wealth of knowledge in his videos on setting up hand planes. He recently did one on setting up a brand new modern Stanley, that's the plane everyone reckons is useless in every respect and it was a fairly simple straight forward process and most importantly it worked.

Have at the links above and especially his plane set up videos because they are the best out there. The one thing above all is learn what sharp is because if you don't have a target then you won't recognise what sharp Isn't. Thinking about it recognising what sharp isn't is most probably the most important of all.

Originally Posted by Cklett

I have the same sander. How did you attach/fix the base of the jig to the sander housing? Just double sided tape? Or not at all?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

The bottom has two pieces of timber that sit tightly against each side of the body (two red arrows) then there is a piece of timber across the top (one red arrow) that has been height sized so when the belt assembly comes down and clips into place the jig is locked firmly in place.

FAE0B4F3-8668-4EEF-889E-071DADB93566.jpg

Orraloon’s post reminded me that I posted about this setup years ago.

Originally Posted by Cgcc

... When I look back it is obvious there were lots of minor things going wrong that I didn't detect. A guide or video can't show you what might be doing that is mucking up your sharpening. An example for me was relying on the Veritas Mk 2 honing guide to try and sharpen a whole bevel on diamond plates. It just doesn't work (for me) .....

Its all horses for courses, Chris. We have experiences, we change our minds, we move on...

My presently preferred sharpenning technique, in detail, is:

1. establish primary bevel on DMT duosharp extra course diamond plate using Veritas honing guide,
2. remove grinding scratches with DMT duosharp course plate with honing guide,
3. sharpen on wet Shapton waterstones - 800, 5000, 10,000 grit - progressively,
4. Hone with green paste on MDF.

I only use the diamond plates to establish, repair or change the primary bevel; after that its just the waterstones.

Works for me, at this point in time.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

...My progression in sharpening was:

• ...
• scary sharp plus honing guide - first break through ...

Originally Posted by Lappa

... Maybe not as “scary sharp” as some would like but my planes take thin shavings off all the timbers I work with and the chisels work great, slicing end grain easily.....

My bad, Lappa; should have explained that scary sharp is a common name for a sharpenning system using sandpaper on a flat backing sheet - glass, tile or steel plate.

It is not directly a comment on the degree of sharpness obtained. But it could be!

My comment wasn’t directed at your or your comment intentionally but to the term “scary sharp” that’s been used for on many forums for years.

Originally Posted by orraloon

There was a thread on here many years ago on using a belt sander as a sharpener. I think Derek may have started it but that was before the great picture loss the forum suffered. I used the method myself for a while. The crossbar was a kitcken drawer handle from bunnings. It actually is really good at doing primary bevels. One thing to be aware of however is fire risk if that machine is also used for wood sanding. Sparks and fine wood dust are a bad mix as I found out.
Regards
John

The Belt Sander Grinder MkI: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...rinderMkI.html



The Bench Sander Blade Grinder MK II: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...erMK%20II.html



Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks Graeme

There really is so much to learn by doing. A piece of advice I recall reading on Derek's site that I, with respect, think is profound is that you should give a sharpening method a long period of time to see how it works over time.

I am constantly discovering new things by experience. For example I was having a terrible time flattening and polishing the backs of chisels. I would go nuts on a diamond plate until my arms were worn out.

I decided to switch to belt-sander paper on a flat granite block, bearing down hard, and using a rubber stick to clear the paper. Then switching to wet+dry paper. Within 10 minutes:

PXL_20210312_074704565.jpg

The difference? I think it was bearing down hard (instead of going back and forth, back and forth), which you can't really do on a 6" diamond plate as the whole blade doesn't really fit on the plate unless you're only moving it a small distance that doesn't work with hard downward pressure.

So what turned from a frustrating "why can't this work for me!" problem turned into a short, not-unpleasant task with the right gear. In short I was trying to use my arms to move it a huge number of times without the experience that it will actually happen much quicker than fewer strokes, bearing down hard. (A thick granite plate works well for this because you can really press down hard.)

And of course, the theory lines up. If you are essentially pushing two hard materials against each other trying to make one (the sandpaper/diamond grit) remove material from the other (the metal) as they rub past each other, of course you want hard pressure as opposed to soft pressure.

Chris

Originally Posted by Cgcc

Thanks Graeme

There really is so much to learn by doing. A piece of advice I recall reading on Derek's site that I, with respect, think is profound is that you should give a sharpening method a long period of time to see how it works over time. ...

Fully agree. But this does not only apply to sharpening.

... I am constantly discovering new things by experience. For example I was having a terrible time flattening and polishing the backs of chisels. I would go nuts on a diamond plate until my arms were worn out. ...

I have 8 inch (200mm) DMT Duosharp diamond plates and wet grind the backs of chisels and plane blades, holding the blades at an angle of about 15* across the plates. this gives me a "stroke" of almost the full length of the plates. As soon as plates look dirty grey/black I wash them with a water spray. If stage 1 flattening takes more than 2-3 minutes I start to question whether that blade is too curved to warrant fettling.

Then through the water stone grits. I only use honing paste when I am showing off and really want a mirror back!

... I decided to switch to belt-sander paper on a flat granite block, bearing down hard, and using a rubber stick to clear the paper. Then switching to wet+dry paper. Within 10 minutes:
PXL_20210312_074704565.jpg

The difference? I think it was bearing down hard ...

When I was using the "scary sharp" technique (sandpaper on a glass sheet) I variously used belt sander paper, wet & dry sandpaper (black) and aluminium oxide sandpaper (white) - all were routinely used wet with water washing as they became dirty or loaded up with steel filings. All worked equally well. I moved onto diamond stones so I would not have to buy sandpaper.

...

So what turned from a frustrating "why can't this work for me!" problem turned into a short, not-unpleasant task with the right gear. ...

Progress. But your technique, what you have learned, is probably more important than the gear. I have had this experience multiple times, sometimes followed by puzzling set backs.

... In short I was trying to use my arms to move it a huge number of times without the experience that it will actually happen much quicker than fewer strokes, bearing down hard. (A thick granite plate works well for this because you can really press down hard.) .....

Chris

Different from my experience, Chris. I use moderate to firm pressure and concentrate on maximising the length of the sharpening stroke, keeping the blade absolutely flat on the plate and maintaining the same pressure all over the blade.