Thread: Wanted....Hand plane tuition, SA

Hi RC,

To potential get you out of trouble, a few questions what Plane are you using , is it old or new.
Can you provide some pictures?
Have you sharpened the Plane Iron up?

It can be really frustrating starting out with hand planes, a lot of us stumble along.

There are a few things that really need to be sorted out before any plane becomes useable.

Cheers Matt.

Hi RT. I have learnt a lot from YouTube, this forum and the rest of the internet but my recent reading of Garrett Hack's "The Hand Plane Book" summed it all up nicely. Learning to sharpen well, making sure the the lever cap is seated well on the iron and making sure the iron is sitting well on the frog are all critical. The quality of the tool can also be important.

Thanks for the suggestion of the book, I’ll look into it.

To answer the questions, The only serviceable plane I currently own is a near new Stanley #4 (I have several others awaiting clean up or restoration, so probably about time I learn how to use them properly)
Ive never attempted to sharpen the blade thus far, because a: it scares me and I don’t want to ruin it, b:it still feels sharp to me, but clearly I’m no source of reliable reference here, and c: It scares me and I don’t want to ruin it. I know taking your favourite beverage out to the shed and sharpening chisels and planes is supposed to be the grey beard equivalent of zen meditation, but I hate sharpening drills and only do it when the task at hand forces me to (and even then I’ll give due consideration to using a boring head in the mill if the required fabri cobbling of the setup will take less than three weeks so I don’t have the sharpen the drill required to make the hole I need).

Picture attached was from the first time I attempted to use the plane on a bench top for an outdoor table I made, the timber was recycled Oregon. That was the only semi successful usage I’ve managed...

Originally Posted by racingtadpole

Thanks for the suggestion of the book, I’ll look into it.

To answer the questions, The only serviceable plane I currently own is a near new Stanley #4 (I have several others awaiting clean up or restoration, so probably about time I learn how to use them properly)
Ive never attempted to sharpen the blade thus far, because a: it scares me and I don’t want to ruin it, b:it still feels sharp to me, but clearly I’m no source of reliable reference here, and c: It scares me and I don’t want to ruin it. I know taking your favourite beverage out to the shed and sharpening chisels and planes is supposed to be the grey beard equivalent of zen meditation, but I hate sharpening drills and only do it when the task at hand forces me to (and even then I’ll give due consideration to using a boring head in the mill if the required fabri cobbling of the setup will take less than three weeks so I don’t have the sharpen the drill required to make the hole I need).

Picture attached was from the first time I attempted to use the plane on a bench top for an outdoor table I made, the timber was recycled Oregon. That was the only semi successful usage I’ve managed...

I think we need to get you over the hurdle of sharpening first,
Sharpening a plane iron, is black and white difference to sharpening a drill bit on a bench grinder, assuming your talking about sharpening a drill bit on a Bench grinder.

If we can get you sharpening your plane iron, I think you will develop in leaps an bounds!!.

The Books M.A Mentioned are excellent reads.

Cheers Matt

Originally Posted by racingtadpole

Thanks for the suggestion of the book, I’ll look into it.

To answer the questions, The only serviceable plane I currently own is a near new Stanley #4 (I have several others awaiting clean up or restoration, so probably about time I learn how to use them properly)
Ive never attempted to sharpen the blade thus far, because a: it scares me and I don’t want to ruin it, b:it still feels sharp to me, but clearly I’m no source of reliable reference here, and c: It scares me and I don’t want to ruin it. I know taking your favourite beverage out to the shed and sharpening chisels and planes is supposed to be the grey beard equivalent of zen meditation, but I hate sharpening drills and only do it when the task at hand forces me to (and even then I’ll give due consideration to using a boring head in the mill if the required fabri cobbling of the setup will take less than three weeks so I don’t have the sharpen the drill required to make the hole I need).

Picture attached was from the first time I attempted to use the plane on a bench top for an outdoor table I made, the timber was recycled Oregon. That was the only semi successful usage I’ve managed...

Don't be afraid of ruining the blade. If you sharpen it by hand the only thing you can do is mess up the bevel. But that can be reground again. The only way to ruin it is on a bench grinder by getting it too hot and loose it's temper.

I started with the sandpaper on a granite tile and used a honing guide. The guide was a cheap one from the big green shed. That is pretty simple and I quickly had good results on pine. And by now also in hardwood.

Over time now I organised myself some diamond plate and a water stone and am now mainly using free hand. And I am by no means an expert or great at it. But step by step getting better.

Yes, you can mess things up, but hardly anything which cannot be fixed. At least that is my attitude. If I don't mess anything up how am I then ment to learn ;-)

Just go for it. It's just a piece of metal. If it goes wrong we'll fix it again.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

I have raised this point before, if someone has no way of knowing what sharp is then well meaning advice is often not enough but the offer is a good idea. The OP needs to be shown by someone what sharp is because everyone thinks they know when they start out and then go through a succession of stages over a long period of time as they work out what sharp isn't so to speak. My suggestion would be that someone either shows him first hand or sharpens a blade and sends it to him to try. It took me some years to work out that what I thought was sharp was nowhere near it. I commend David Weavers simple solution to sharpen blades as a good place to start but it is a very new technique that is still not widely used.

Hi RC,

I'm also new at this so please take it with a grain of salt:

My first plane was a modern #4 Stanley with plastic knob and handle, not too dissimilar to yours. The plane was in sorry condition and I got it for almost next to nothing, so in a way that helped me not worrying about ruining the plane. I followed YT videos, pretty much what MA has said: flatten the sole, making sure the frog is seated properly, but what made the biggest difference was the sharpness of the cutting iron. Unfortunately I found that it was also the most difficult to achieve.

I also started with sandpapers on a piece of broken tile & honing guide, spending silly and frustrating hours trying to get it sharp. How sharp is sharp? CP raised a really good point. I only realised how a plane should work after trying a well-tuned plane of one of the forumites. Since then I knew what to aim for, which was a great help.

I now use diamond plates free hand and finish it off with a strop charged with honing compound. More often than not I don't get it right first time, so sharpening still does take a bit of time. But hopefully I'll get the right muscle memory with enough practice. I don't know how others measure the sharpness of their cutting iron, but I'm happy when it can cleanly cut though a piece of paper (the usual printing paper) by stabbing/poking motion (not slicing). It seems to work for me but I've only used it on pines.

What I've learnt so far:
1. Lap the back of the iron, in the vicinity of the cutting edge. The smoother the better.
2. The bevel angle doesn't need to be precise. Mine is probably anywhere between ~25deg - 35deg. It is also most forgiving for any mistakes made during the sharpening process. If I mess up the bevel, back to the plate she goes and re-hone.
3. Make sure there's no gap between the cutting iron and cap iron. Otherwise shaving will get stuck, which is a PITA.

It can indeed be frustrating. I actually just managed to get a nice wispy shaving (on pine) only last night - almost two years after I got my first plane. Keeping the shaving as a memento.

Cheers,
Andy

I'd re-iterate what Matt and Chris have said in regard to sharpening, and it would probably help to have someone show you what 'sharp' is , though it is achievable yourself by watching youtube or reading - even "scary sharp' can help get you towards 'sharp'. There are many ways/methods of sharpening bench - use of bench grinder for primary bevel, then water stones, ceramic stones, scary sharp, oil stones, diamond etc or combinations of those, just need to pick one and do it well. Use of a sharpening jig to keep the bevel angle can work well for some. I tend to hollow grind and then free hand it on the stones.

It looks like your 'recent' stanley plane will work, but it will be a struggle to get any decent shavings out of a plane if the blade is not sufficiently sharp.

cheers

I feel like this is one of those things where, you don’t know what you don’t know. I wholeheartedly agree that likely if I set aside my pathological dislike and fear of sharpening things, embrace my inner grey beard, and have a crack, it’ll likely pay big.

Another forum member has been in contact and offered to spend some time to help me, and introduce me to what a properly sharpened plane looks and behaves like. That’ll be a week or so away but something to look forward to.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

I have raised this point before, if someone has no way of knowing what sharp is then well meaning advice is often not enough but the offer is a good idea. The OP needs to be shown by someone what sharp is because everyone thinks they know when they start out and then go through a succession of stages over a long period of time as they work out what sharp isn't so to speak. .....

Originally Posted by racingtadpole

I feel like this is one of those things where, you don’t know what you don’t know. I wholeheartedly agree that likely if I set aside my pathological dislike and fear of sharpening things, embrace my inner grey beard, and have a crack, it’ll likely pay big.

That is a really good starting point and it took me years to realise it.

I certainly did not know what sharp was ... then I thought I had discovered it. Hallelujah! I had mastered it. Then I discovered another tier of sharpness, then another, then ...

My progression in sharpening was:

• oil stones - painfully slow and I had zero technique,
• crap bench grinder - faster than oil stones but also very good at removing temper from steel,
• scary sharp plus honing guide - first break through
• diamond stones - excellent, don't have to buy sandpaper,
• water stones - far better finish.
• honing paste on MDF.

My present methodology is:

• establish primary bevel with diamond stone,
• sharpen with waterstones - 800, 4000, 8000 grit,
• hone lightly with paste.

But I am sure I will change this as I learn more and refine my technique.

I would add to this thread that I think it's a great idea to get tuition.

When I started I was determined to figure it out myself. Partly this was because I have a young family and most available time was at odd and unpredictable hours. I think another part was feeling a bit embarrased that I had bought some planes and sharpening equipment but had no idea how to use them. I also watched videos showing how to do it and they seemed straightforward and showed you how. None of the videos suggested there is much more to it than what they show. They just show you how it's done and - voila! - something super sharp. Not "here's how it's done, but you will do some things you don't realise that may muck it up, so don't just rely on this video".

Also, most online guides - generally speaking - don't show you someone who runs through all the steps and then shows off a disappointing edge at the end that doesn't work. But that's what happens when you're starting.

When I look back it is obvious there were lots of minor things going wrong that I didn't detect. A guide or video can't show you what might be doing that is mucking up your sharpening. An example for me was relying on the Veritas Mk 2 honing guide to try and sharpen a whole bevel on diamond plates. It just doesn't work (for me) because unless you get it *exactly* on the money, you will have to abrade back an entire bevel before you hit the edge. Even on a standard Stanley #4 plane iron, that is a lot of metal to remove with a stone. It also won't automatically fix up a bevel that is out of square because finger pressure will press it down to follow the existing geometry. These are little things you only learn from a lot of mistakes and thinking through, but would also be readily spotted by a pro.

Chris

Originally Posted by Cgcc

It also won't automatically fix up a bevel that is out of square because finger pressure will press it down to follow the existing geometry. These are little things you only learn from a lot of mistakes and thinking through, but would also be readily spotted by a pro.
Chris

Whilst I certainly agree with that statement the thing I found hard to avoid when using a honing guide was rounding the blade edge, you know, putting a camber on it. Yeah, I was really good at getting a bevel for a scrub plane. Finally worked out that if I set the sharpening media at a lower height so that my arms were extended, rather than held up close to my body like a couple of kangaroo paws, it was much easier to get a straight, square edge.

I defy anybody to get a clean, fine shaving from an out of the box, made in Mexico, Stanley #4. Looking forward to your first post after your session with the forumite.

I bought a Veritas Sharpening guide, a selection of diamond plates off eBay and a green honing paste block from Bunnings.
Maybe not as “scary sharp” as some would like but my planes take thin shavings off all the timbers I work with and the chisels work great, slicing end grain easily.
When I get damaged blades (fettling old planes) I quickly get them ready for the diamond stones using a jig made from a modified Trojan honing jig (Bunnings) on a Ryobi belt sander.
I had lots of hits and misses in the start but this system now works for me.

Sharpening a blade is not the only factor that gives you thin and continuous shavings, but it is probably the most important and undoubtedly the most difficult step.
My to-do list for tuning a vintage plane in descending order of importance:

1. Sharpening - This includes selecting the bevel angle, flattening the back, having a camber that suits your plane. For a #4, a bevel angle of 30 to 35° generally a good idea. Flatten the last 15 ~ 20 mm of the back. Sharpening - a can of worms and so many opinions, there is a whole sub-forum of opinions. One thing I would say is that if you hold a piece of photocopy paper vertically, a sharp iron would slice through that piece of paper with only minimal effort, i.e., just relying on the weight of the iron, and with no tearing at all.
2. A good chip breaker - This support is crucial especially when the chip breaker is set very close to the edge. I have a Mexican made Stanley that refused to take thin shavings when the blade protrusion is 0.5mm but otherwise had no problem. Changed it to a Veritas or Luban chip breaker and its now planing beautifully. (It's important to make sure the slot from the replacement chip breaker is in the same place as the original one)
3. Setting assembly correctly - as I said previously, 0.5mm blade distance from the chip breaker and set the minimal depth of cut and use the lateral adjuster to set shavings to be even across the whole width.
4. The flatness of the sole - I found this to be least important and it makes an unnoticeable difference to most of us except you are making fine furnitures.