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  1. #1
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    Default Hand planes youtube find - German!

    Hi, I thought I'd share these. Sorry they are in German, but that's why I think many have not come across them yet.

    First is a very old footage and shows very nicely how planes cut and effects of sole and chipbreaker. Germannis very little. Pictures speak for themselves.

    Alte Filme - Wirkungsweise eines Hobels - YouTube


    The second is a documentary shown in German TV about Herr Fritsche, who is making infill planes. I find is set up and technique for peening particularly interesting. See around min 23.

    Wie man einen Hobel baut | SWR Handwerkskunst - YouTube


    You can actually switch YouTube to English subtitles.
    Anyway, I thought I just share.

    Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cklett View Post
    Hi, I thought I'd share these. Sorry they are in German, but that's why I think many have not come across them yet.

    First is a very old footage and shows very nicely how planes cut and effects of sole and chipbreaker. Germannis very little. Pictures speak for themselves.

    Alte Filme - Wirkungsweise eines Hobels - YouTube


    The second is a documentary shown in German TV about Herr Fritsche, who is making infill planes. I find is set up and technique for peening particularly interesting. See around min 23.

    Wie man einen Hobel baut | SWR Handwerkskunst - YouTube


    You can actually switch YouTube to English subtitles.
    Anyway, I thought I just share.

    Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
    Cklett,
    They were fantastic to watch, I couldn’t understand a word they were saying.
    But so many neat little tricks, definitely want a milling machine now.(Love the way the mouth was machined open).
    An definitely need to build another plane, maybe that should be finish the one I’m working on first [emoji3064][emoji3064].
    Thanks for sharing

    Cheers Matt.

  4. #3
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    Thanks for posting CK. The video about the infill planes is brilliant, a few of little "tricks of the trade" I could see him using. Will save this video for when I get around to building an infill myself.
    You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde

  5. #4
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    Thanks Ck - I also enjoyed the video of the old bloke making an infill. The subtitles were pretty good & easy to follow, though there were some odd translations for "Pins" & "tails" used inconsistently. It doesn't matter because it's quite clear what is meant each time. I found myself nodding in agreement with a few of his lines, like "the better the fit of pins & tails, the easier it is to close them".

    His technique for "peining" using a punch isn't novel, I've seen it done with punches before. The way I saw it demonstrated was rather awkward, but his elaborate (& solid!) peining block made it easier to manage. The close-ups showing the metal of the pins being pushed over the tails is brilliant - you can really see that metal moving under each blow.

    I guess many of you would envy his milling machine, it makes some of the work way easier, but remember you need a decent, solid machine like his, plus the tooling, and the know-how to drive it. For those wishing to build one or two planes, the all-handwork method will get you there & with care can be just as accurate - machinery can certainly speed things up a lot, for sure, but it also speeds up the rate at which disasters happen!

    Cheers,
    IW

  6. #5
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    There will, sadly, be no more planes from Gerd Fritsche. He passed away in September 2022.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cklett View Post
    I find is set up and technique for peening particularly interesting. See around min 23.


    Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
    it's a great idea, and I'm going to steal it. I've always put the plane facing away from me with the hammer almost at length (heavier hammer so as not to have to take big swings) to avoid overstrikes up into the sole. It's not hard to get good at that, but gerd's way is better.

    Sorry to hear that he's died since. I do remember that his prices for planes were very reasonable as far as new infills go and it caused some grousing among other makers. I don't remember if karl was one, but there is some case for Karl that his design changes to norris's cast planes got copied one way or another by a lot of other makers.

    it may be my german heritage, but I respect a guy who goes about stuff and makes it in a workmanlike manner and offers it for a reasonable price without too much flash or woo.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.W. View Post
    ...it's a great idea, and I'm going to steal it. I've always put the plane facing away from me with the hammer almost at length (heavier hammer so as not to have to take big swings) to avoid overstrikes up into the sole. It's not hard to get good at that, but gerd's way is better.......
    What was novel to me was doing the peening with the work held in a vise. I've seen others use punches & have used punching myself at times, but not like in the video. I didn't have the plane & peening block held in a vise when I tried punching, but had it lying on the anvil as a backstop. This gives good support, but you need three hands, one to steady the job, one to hold the punch & one to swing the hammer! So you really need an assistant but my usual "assistant" is not keen on metalwork & she doesn't entirely trust my aim. Having a nervous work-holder isn't very satisfactory and a grave risk to domestic harmony...

    To use Gerd's method I suspect you will need a very solid peening block and a hefty vise like his. The other thing I immediately noticed was the steel side-supports, which would add useful mass to the peening block. I have seen the waste part of the metal the sides were cut from used to support the sides in the same way, but his were obviously made from steel, not brass & pretty solid looking. That makes sense if you plan to make the exact same plane repeatedly, but would be an awful lot of trouble to go to for one or two planes.

    One solution for supporting the sides is to make a rebated peening block"20 Peening block.jpg

    It's quite a bit of bother to make, & I discovered it needs to be very accurate to adequately support the sides when the tails are bashed down from the sole side. So these days I just use bolts. For a small plane (this one is 150mm) two bolts will do:

    Pins peening d.jpg

    ...but if your pins & tails aren't a close fit & the tails need a lot of peening, I'd advise using a few more bolts to support the sides more solidly.

    It does take a bit of practiceto become an accurate peener (& one reason I advise having a go at a riveted-body shoulder plane first because setting rivets is easier but will give you lots of practice). If you've not done any peening before, you'll probably find your arm tires quickly & the blows lose accuracy, so work in short bursts. With care, it's entirely possible for even a relative beginner to get well-closed joints that will clean up nicely:

    Peening complete.jpg

    I admit I still have an occasional small mis-hit where the hammer slides off the edge & makes a small ding in the wrong place, but these are generally shallow & disappear in the clean-up, except on the last plane I made where I was over-confident & in a hurry & made a ding that was too deep to remove. It's now a permanent reminder that one should never be in a hurry....

    Cheers,
    IW

  9. #8
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    I'll have to think of some things to make it work - it won't be identical to his setup, but I can polish turds pretty well if I can find a pile with enough of different shapes and dryness.

    i started with a vise that had an anvil on the back, as well as a hammer, and custom cut wood peining blocks for each plane. This really isn't that bad, except my first two planes were O1 on O1 with thick sole and sides. I made it through because I didn't know how easy other work would be, and you can comb cut that stuff, anyway and it files nicely.

    I bought an anvil, literally, to have a good platform for peining dovetails and then promptly made only one more plane and now who knows how many chisels and knives.

    I used a punch on the anvil - to describe it, it's sort of like hook handing (like you're holding a fence post) a punch and using the bottom of your hand at the same time to hold the punch in place and hold the plane down so that it can't move that much and then hitting the punch, then resetting. it's slow enough that you can't get tired and do stupid things. But it's pretty harsh/awkward feeling, just not in the same way as forgetting to take a break swinging around a ball pein hammer.

  10. #9
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    Well, it really doesn't matter much how you close the gaps as long as you can do it without making a mess that won't clean up when you are finished. If I'd seen that video before I made my first plane, I would probably have tried to follow his method, but as a lad I was shown by my fitter uncle how to peen rivets and had done enough peening to feel faintly confident I could manage it, so in my ignorance I just went for the ball-peen hammer when it came to closing up my first dovetails.

    Some years ago, I saw an article where the bloke used a cross-peen or "Warrington" hammer. The business end of a cross-peen is rather like Gerd's punch (which is like a very dull cold-chisel), and has much the same effect. But, the catch is, you have to swing the hammer with deadly accuracy because of the wide contact area. I tried it after I read the article, but decided a ball-peen was much safer in my hands; the edge of a cross-peen can leave a really nasty divot if you don't hit squarely & it catches the brass side!

    It doesn't take all that much practice to learn to strike with sufficient accuaracy with a ball-peen, what you do have to be careful of is ensuring you have hammered enough metal over to properly fill the gaps. If you beat the pins down too quickly, it will look like you've filled everything nicely, until you start filing off the waste & uncover pin holes (you will still have strong joints, your plane just won't look quite like the new Norris or Spiers you envisaged). The idea is to start striking a couple of mm from the edge & slowly work a whole chunk over. The benefit of Gerd's punch method is it moves the full thickness of the sole each time as you can clearly see in the close-up take. The even way he moves the metal over with each blow is very impressive - I think he might have done it once or twice before.

    My biggest bugbear with making plane bodies is peening the ends of the brass tails into the sole gaps. Here in Oz, it's really difficult to buy "soft" brass, the 380 "machinable" stuff is about all you can get from local merchants. It's ok as long as you fit the dovetails on the sides fairly accurately. The vast majority of the peening is then closing the pins of the sole over the brass and both mild steel and gauge-plate (annealed O1) will take heavy peening. The "hard" brass will usually tolerate peening just enough to fill the small gaps on the sole side, but this is where you are most likely to end up with a pin-hole or two after clean-up, especially if you get too enthusiastic & beat it until it starts to split & flake (damhik!). Lately, I've been buying Chinese-made brass on ebay. It's said to be H62, which is a similar zinc-copper ratio to 380, but it peens waaay better than 380. However, it's available mostly in very small or inconveniently-sized sheets & takes a couple of months to arrive.

    A plane I've always wanted to try my hand at is an "English box-mitre" (purely for the challenge, I have no idea what I'd use it for!), but because you have to fit the continuous sides to the sole from the top, you can't cut "proper" dovetails and they require a lot more peening than planes with separate sides, which can be cut to a close fit. I very much doubt I could do a tolerable job with 380, so that has kept me from attempting one, but after my minor success with a miniature version with continuous sides (with the bend at the toe not the back):
    VP3a.jpg
    ... I finally gave in to curiosity a few weeks ago & ordered a sheet of H62 to have a crack at one. So you might hear something further on that early in the new year (or you might not, if things go badly! )....

    Cheers,
    IW

  11. #10
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    Ian, I have watched enough Bill Carter videos to "whet my appetite" that I am looking forward to what you come up with.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Ash View Post
    .... I have watched enough Bill Carter videos to "whet my appetite" that I am looking forward to what you come up with....
    Well I hope I don't disappoint you, MA, but it may not be quite up to the Carter standard. And it won't be a biggie, I have a 1 1/2" wide blade that I plan to use & I'm aiming for something with sides ~ 120mm long and a sole 15-20mm longer than that. It'll be more of a long-nosed block plane than the fairly hefty mitres of old.

    After the little plane with curved sides I showed above, I'm much less worried about scribing & fitting the dovetails to the sole than I was before trying it. Having to split the sole for a low-angle blade will add a few nervous moments, but what I was most nervous about was cutting out slots in the sides for the bridge tenons before bending, as Bill does. Unless the slots match very closely, it would end up with a wonky bridge, which I couldn't live with. So my plan is to ditch tradition & fit the bridge after the body is assembled. I have two choices, one being to use screws, like this:
    Ebony infill chariot plane.jpg

    Which is relatively idiot-proof, but a bit klunky, maybe. On the last few planes I made I cross-riveted the bridge in, like this:

    Done b.jpg

    This certainly looks neater, the only drawback being once it's in, it's in forever. Using screws allows a second shot if things go pear-shaped, though (touch wood) that didn't happen on any of them, which emboldened me to go for rivets....

    Cheers,
    IW

  13. #12
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    Watching a recent BC video, he was talking about cheesehead screws in mitre planes. They don't get more "klunky" than that !

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Ash View Post
    Watching a recent BC video, he was talking about cheesehead screws in mitre planes. They don't get more "klunky" than that !
    Do you mean this one, where he's talking about the cheese-head screw at the back? I guess if it's there to be used as a "strike-button", it's certainly something to be "klunked".

    I like Bill's idea of the "waist" on the top of the blade to make it easier to tap it back. Simpler than fitting a "nib" as Bill calls it. I've only "nibbed" a single blade - it wasn't that big a challenge, but it did take a bit of time & care to do it neatly.

    When hammer-setting planes it's always a nuisance when you tap that smidgin past where you wanted to be, so I can easily see why the nib came about. I usually do what I saw done on the old woodies in my youth, which is to give it a soft but sharp rap on the top of the toe. I find that a more controllable way of backing the cutter off a teeny bit on my planes than walloping the rear end, which seems to be the the more typical method judging by the crushed backsides on many a vintage woodie. Hitting the back is effective, but I always seem to cause the blade & wedge to shoot back too far & have to start from the beginning again....

    Cheers,
    IW

  15. #14
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    That's the video. I love the "low key" nature of his videos. As to klunky, I was thinking that your little bridge screws are quite subtle compared to the whopper hanging out of the back (and front) of some of the mitre planes. Speaking of whacking planes, my brass/timber plane hammer has finally chipped the wooden face, confirming derekcohen's prediction.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Ash View Post
    ..... I love the "low key" nature of his videos.....
    I like the little pauses while the old grey cells catch up a bit, & the muttered instructions to his long-suffering wife working the camera. He's a couple of years ahead of me, but I have those same "now, what was I saying?" or, "where did I put that tool? I had in my hand just two minutes ago...." moments all the time. Bills videos are as entertaining & reassuring for me as they are informative.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Ash View Post
    ..... I was thinking that your little bridge screws are quite subtle compared to the whopper hanging out of the back (and front) of some of the mitre planes.....
    In at least 3 videos of Bill's I've seen him have a minor rant about that rear-end screw & insisting it was only to hold the infill in & was never meant to be walloped. It does beg the question, though, why they made it so prominent & inviting if they didn't want punters bashing it?

    Cheers,
    IW

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