Thread: two old hand saws.

Martin

With the Hill Late Howel you can’t get an exact date on them, they made exactly the same saw between 1834 and 1909.

Peter

Judging by the wear, you could probably safely assume an early date!

I haven't the foggiest idea on saw dating, but the indentation on the top RHS of the handle (presumably from the user's index finger?) is amazing - I've seen the wear on the toes of old woodies from callused fingers & long service, but have not seen wear like that on a saw handle before. Worn blade & worn handle spell a LOT of use.

I'd reckon the rivets holding the handle on are unlikely to be factory-original, since the washers don't match the counter-sinks neatly, & it certainly looks like there was a medallion bolt once. That could mean a replacement handle, or it could simply mean the original bolts broke or were lost. Those saws likely would have had split nuts & very thin, cast bolts.

Not much help with your query, I'm afraid, a stamped blade is consistent with a birth date well before 1900 on most brands but not so with yours, it seems, if they made exactly the same saws 'til the end & never switched to an etch at any stage...
Cheers,

Hi Peter,

If the saw had a medallion would it be easier to date

martin

Originally Posted by old workshop

Hi Peter,

If the saw had a medallion would it be easier to date

martin

Martin
the Hill Late Howel never had medallions on there saws, the other one might be a Robt Sorby post the photos over on backsaw.net and one of the collectors on that site might be able to help.

Peter

Hi Ian,

The middle bolt is a brass split nut and it looks to be original.
I think where the index finger was the split nut would have been touching
the finger. It looks like the split nut has been riveted down to fit in where
the index finger has worn the handle. It has 4 teeth per inch and teeth
are still very much the same size. Thanks Martin.

Hi Peter,

I will post to backsaw.net.
Do you think the Hill Late Howell handle has been broken
at the bottom hence the flat part of the handle.

Thanks Martin.

Originally Posted by old workshop

....Do you think the Hill Late Howell handle has been broken
at the bottom hence the flat part of the handle.....

Nope, that's called a "London pattern" handle, Martin. It was made that way....

Cheers,

Hi,
I will try and post a few more saws one day. I have put the saws in storage
for now but will get them out maybe over xmas. I have maybe 60 or more saws.
One old Distton Dovetail, and one which says New York on it.

Thanks Martin.

Martin

The named saw is from a London based firm. Joseph Howell was a plane maker 1799 - 1928 (although it is possible his wife was running the business. She would have continued hubby's name as women in business were not well regarded). Joseph Hill was originally Howell's foreman, but himself made "wholesale" saws from 1834 onwards until 1909 as Peter mentioned (post #2). The business must have been carried on as I'm sure he did not live for over 100 years.

I sourced this information from Simon Barley's book. he comments that between JV Hill and Howell they were most prolific and may have manufactured saws under the names of other firms they had acquired: Not all is completely clear here.

Your saw is indeed a London pattern hand as Ian identified, but the "boss" has been filed away right up to the bottom saw screw to allow for a level of saw sharpening that has gone way beyond the norm! Your grandfather certainly got his money's worth out of that one!

The other saw, without a stamp or medallion to identify could be anything. The lower saw screw position looks to be occupied by a roofing nail (as with the missing medallion position) and could be a level of improvised repair there.

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul,

Even with all the wood worm in the handle and replaced screw nuts,
i would not do any thing to change the saws. I love family history and had
all his funeral ledgers put in Jersey s archive to preserve them for all to see.

thanks Martin.