Thread: Hand saws

I don't really know. I have tried the Adria and Lei-Neilson and they both seemed excelent saws except the handles were too small for my hand. I would like an Adria with a bigger handle but do not feel like paying that much and having to make a new handle. Consequently I use a japanese saw. I read in wood magazine that Jarra is not kind to Japanese saw teeth but have no experience. My preference would be for a saw that fitted my hand best. You can of course go overboard and order a custom Wenzlof which a few on the forum have but you will have a wait and spend lots of dollars and I am not sure how customised the handle fit is.

Pusser is right, it's really going to depend on what feels right in your hand. I have the Adria but I also have average sized hands. Grammercy tools have just entered the Dovetail saw market as well. If you follow the magazines comparisons then you'll buy the Adria, but honestly there cannot be that much difference between the LN Adria Grammercy or Wenzloff. I did try and dovetail 30mm Jarrah a couple of years ago for a bench with a Japanese saw, that consequently led to the purchase of the Adria which I'm reall happy with. The mags also nominated the Crown as excellent value.

Thanks for the clues.

I have a Lie-Nielsen dovetail saw. It is a great little saw that I would happily recommend to anyone.

Mike Wenzloff is just about to make me a new crosscut carcass saw. Just a few days ago he asked me to send him a measurement of my palm. I took this to mean that Mike does customise the saw handle for the size of your hand, at least for the custom saws he makes.

If you aren't necessarily after a custom saw you can buy a Wenzloff dovetail saw from Lee Valley.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,42884,57152

Or a different one from "The Best Things".

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/wenzloff_saws.htm

Socrates mentioned the Gramercy dovetail saw. You can buy one of them from Tools for Working Wood.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/M...egory_Code=CGT

I have purchased stuff online from Lee Valley, The Best Things and Tools for Working Wood and in each case the service has been excellent.

I have a LN which is an excellent saw, plus a few I have made myself, and a number of vintage dt saws.

What suits you might not suit someone else it tends to be a very individual choice.

Some people get good results by buying an el-cheapo bunnings Trojan etc (less than $20 or so) and re-working it. There is a good article on the FWW site on this.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki....aspx?id=24976

Personally I don't like pull saws, (Ok, I probably need practice, and a better saw).

If you are going up-market the best looking one would be the Mike Wenzloff
and you can get exactly what you want. http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/

If you want to make your own, I am planning to post a how-to in the next few weeks, it's proabaly not really for everyone however.

Finally, if you want really good value for money, keep a look-out for a (early) good british made saw, Groves & Sons, Taylor Bros, etc, etc,

Look for one which is in reasonable condition, don't forget that whatever the condition it's in generally you will almost certainly need to joint/sharpen/set the teeth.

Good Luck, let us know what you end up with!

Having recently received a couple of Mike Wenzloff's custom made saws, I can say that they are fabulous and that Mike is a great bloke to deal with. He really does go out of his way to make a saw the way you want it. Here are mine, a rip cut dovetail and matching cross cut with figured Bubinga handles







The only down side is that you will have to wait. His website is currently quoting 40 weeks for a custom made saw. But if you can afford to wait, it's worth it.

Cheers

Paul

The only difference I can offer up between the LN and Adria is that the LN was easier to start than the Adria. I suspect the tooth profile is a bit different and therefore a bit easier to begin a cut with the LN on the corner of a piece of wood. Handles were about the same in feel.

They look lovely Paul. Lucky man.

I've got a couple of Adria which I have used for the past three years. I've tested a couple of LN saws as well. They are all okay. But it is in the sharpening IMO. Over the past several months I've been acquiring some "vintage" saws and sending them to Daryl Weir to sharpen. Now, without a doubt, these saws are not necessarily pretty to look at (you should have seen them before they were cleaned up); however, having been newly set and sharpened, they clearly out cut my Adria's.

In short all that means is that the Adria's need to be sharpened in like manner; but I didn't spend more than $40 for any of these; and the sharpening added another $40. Also, the handles on all these are more refined IMO than the newer stuff.

The top saw is a 14" Wheeler, Madden, and Clemson filed 12 ppi filed rip; the 2nd, is a 12" Jackson filed rip (has a really thin plate, super DT saw); the 3rd is a 10 Spears & Jackson filed X-cut (the plate was way to thick for DT's; however it is great for sawing the half tails and other X-cuts); the last is an 8" Disston; this saw looked ready for the trash bin when I got it. I apoligized to Daryl when I sent it to him and gave him permission to toss it. Regardless, Daryl straightened the plate; reground the teeth 16ppi and sharpened; it has a plate thinner than the Jackson. I've never used a better DT saw. I was amazed.

I've got others, like a 16" Richardson Bros. and a 16" Disston, both excellent tennon saws. These would run in close to $200 or more each to find comparable new stuff.

First, take your time and look around. Secondly, unless you are regularly cutting DT's and other joints with a saw, it takes a while to appreciate its strengths and distinguish its weaknesses from your (my) own inadequacies.

Hi dlwheel,
great to hear about your sucsess with the vintage saws that have been sharpened and reset. Do you think that the Adria saws that your vintage saws are outperforming at the moment might be in need of similar treatment? (Resharpen and reset?)
The reason I ask is that I have a few Adrias and they have been fantastic. They have come very well sharpened and set out of the box. They work a treat.
Kevin

Exactly. That is why I said "In short all that means is that the Adria's need to be sharpened in like manner". Without a doubt once they have been equally treated I expect them to perform as well or perhaps even better. I just wanted to comment that one might be able to acquire a couple of saws for the price on a new one, as an option.

I wish I could take the time to learn saw sharpening... but I just don't have it to give.

I find that relaxing the rake a bit on the the first two inches helps a lot in starting the cut. So usually when I hear someone say that one saw starts easier than another; it has more to do with the way the saw has been prepared than the saw itself. In my case both Adrias cut okay; it just seemed that they wanted to skip or "bounce out of the cut" and cut more slowly than I like. I know it is subjective; just my opinion.

Haven't used either the LN or Adria. I ordered one of Mike Wenzloff's saws (& a few other nice goodies) from Lee Valley a few weeks ago. Got an email from them on the Tuesday that they had posted it & I expected to wait a good few weeks...the stuff turned up on Friday. Three days from the other side of the world. I can't even get to Bunnings that quick Even with $US freight charges I only paid a bit more than half the price of an Adria...go figure. I will be shopping at LV again, the service is excellent.

Must say the saw is a joy to use, much nicer than my old Jackson. But I have been spending a bit of time learning to sharpen a few old saws I have & can say that it's all in the sharpening.

Originally Posted by JohnnoM

Must say the saw is a joy to use, much nicer than my old Jackson. But I have been spending a bit of time learning to sharpen a few old saws I have & can say that it's all in the sharpening.

You have nailed it.

It's all in the sharpening. I have done a few recently and by increasing the rake near the toe, and reducing it near the heel you can make it start easily and cut aggressively. A tiny little bit of fleam seems to help. I did a progressive pitch in similar fashion and that helps amplify the progressive rake effect.

Needless to say, a $10 saw sharpened the way you like, will perform as well as a $130 saw.

But, those Mike Wenzloff saws just look incredible. I have to have one. (someday) Nice drive by gloat back there, by Paul.

When you resharpen your saws. Are you also resetting the teeth and if so where did you get your resetter from. I know Ecipse you to make a good one.