Thread: What hand saws to buy?

Originally Posted by jimbur

It explains why secondhand saws are so cheap. I've ended up with multiple saws because I couldn't bear to see them going to landfill. My favourite disston panel saw cost me $3 at an op shop and the bloke said, "you do realise it needs sharpening?"
Cheers,
Jim

Nearly ditto.
I posted this over in Monday night show and tell
$1 at the Kendall Show
.... and yes it needed sharpening

Originally Posted by Scribbly Gum

Nearly ditto.
I posted this over in Monday night show and tell
$1 at the Kendall Show
.... and yes it needed sharpening

I wasted my money when I could have bought three for the price of one.
cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by jimbur

I wasted my money when I could have bought three for the price of one.
cheers,
Jim

Yeah, they saw you coming!

It's looks like this topic has digressed.

Tools4me what did you end up buying?

Originally Posted by Scribbly Gum

Nearly ditto.
I posted this over in Monday night show and tell
$1 at the Kendall Show
.... and yes it needed sharpening

Geeezzzusss ... be careful, Please.

You posted the end result ... and I hadn't seen the other post.

Looked like a #12 for $1!! I woulda fallen off my chair if I wasn't lying on the ground


Nice job there.

Paul.

Originally Posted by Christos

It's looks like this topic has digressed.

Tools4me what did you end up buying?

Nuthin' yet. Still eyeing off the Lie Nielsen's but thinking I should probably get Bahco.

I thought they convinced you out of buying a new saw.

One may not be enough.

Originally Posted by Christos

I thought they convinced you out of buying a new saw.

One may not be enough.

They're trying pretty hard. Don't know what the fascination with old rust is

If you end up buying a saw from LN as you mention it will need to be sharpen eventually. I got the dovetail saws from LV but no where near needing to sharpening but know one day I will need to sharpen.

I also no desire to stuff up a saw cause I am not sure how to sharpen. So I have since acquired an old Dission, a saw file and something that will set the teeth.

Now I need some knowledge on how to do it. Well in Sydney there is a group called The Traditional Tool Group (TTTG) which hold saw sharpening course.

The other way is via the internet on a podcast or YouTub e.

I figured that it is just one more skill that allows me to enjoy the hobby. Same as when I need to sharpen a chisel or plane iron.

Should also mention this has taken time to get to this position and at least another six weeks before I return to Sydney. All in good time.

Originally Posted by Tools4Me

They're trying pretty hard. Don't know what the fascination with old rust is

well, the rust comes off pretty easy, theres a few different materials that can be used successfully. sometimes i use a 100 or finer dry garnet paper because its softer then the steel but harder than the rust

i picked up this old saw the other day, it should clean up very nice.

i wasnt looking for one, i was killing a few minutes browsing in a shop and just happened across it, sitting behind a pile junk in a second hand shop, i picked it up, it felt good in the hand, blade sound and good quality sheffield steel, easy to sharpen, much nicer in the hand and to use than most new saws, nicer than plenty of decent quality saws i can think of that were available over the past few decades, wooden handle spear and jacksons etc , even though i have used them happily and produced A grade joinery with them, you dont have to have the best saw in world to do good work, its just nice to have pretty things..i still preffer some of my old 1880's disstons and others to this (they make you go oooh and aah when you hold them they feel so nice) but it was toooo good to leave sitting there for $5 !! actually it might have been free because he threw it in with a very reasonable priced plane i couldnt pass up just sitting there asking for a new owner (it was still basically new in its box!) along with a couple of other hand-saws for nothing. needless to say i thought that was a good buy, especially from a shop


a Kenyon 12 inch, 12 ppi X-cut not their top of the range without a brass back but a very good and serviceable saw i think just the same, you couldnt go wrong with something like this, at least for as long as you cared to use it before getting something you fancied more but by then you would have more of an idea what you wanted and why

Originally Posted by ch!ppy

......a Kenyon 12 inch, 12 ppi X-cut not their top of the range without a brass back but a very good and serviceable saw i think

Nice find, Ch!ppy - & I'm very glad to see the old girl has found a good home to go to. Like the 'London' pattern handle. I agree the steel back doesn't look as nice as a bit of shiny brass, but in fact it's probaby stiffer and therefore functionally better than brass, anyway. For some reason, brass wasn't as popular in the US as it was in Britain, but it didn't stop them making excellent saws, steel back or otherwise.

I'm not a fan of rust, either, T4M, but as Ch!ppy says, it's easily dealt with, as long as it isn't a severe case of metal leprosy. The advantages of buying an old saw or two are several - you could end up with a couple of saws like Ch!ppy's that feel a LOT better in the hand than most new saws, the metal in them is perfectly good stuff, and you could teach yourself to sharpen without panicking about damaging an expensive bit of tool jewellry.

As Christos says, and I constantly preach -a saw is a cutting tool & needs frequent attention to keep it at its best. It is a bit more difficult to sharpen a saw well than say, a chisel, but it isn't an impossible skill to learn, either. Even a not-so-well-sharpened saw will cut, albeit not as well as a properly-tuned saw, but comparitively better than a poorly sharpened chisel or plane. I know! I used not very well sharpened saws with reasonable results for a long time before diciding to apply myself & learn to do it better.....

Cheers,

Rust: Has anyone else discovered that a lot of old tools and equipment dont actually rust at all?

And no matter how good the saw, no matter how expensive, it WILL need attention. The tips of some new saws I have seen have such wierd and acutely angled tips i dont know how they are sharpened. Think of the ongoing life of the saw; something you CAN manage.

Go on, go to a garage sale...

Thanks Ian, yeah i was pretty chuffed, its not often i get bargains!

although the brand rang a bell , not that i recognised it at the time but it turns out its the same maker as found in that Seaton tool chest (albeit a latter year) that gets a fair bit of attention over the inter-web nowadays. a nice chap in England that has apparently done a Phd and is publishing a book on British saws and saw makers wants to include a a bit of pic of this one in his book so the old girl has made another small contribution to the world mere hours after being brought back into the light. the guy in England has been collecting british saws for many years and has around 1500 but oddly doesnt come across Kenyons' very often (he has just 4) in spite of evidence they made a great deal of saws. when they do show up its often in Australia he says, also the US

cheers
Chippy

Originally Posted by dakotax3

Rust: Has anyone else discovered that a lot of old tools and equipment dont actually rust at all?

And no matter how good the saw, no matter how expensive, it WILL need attention. The tips of some new saws I have seen have such wierd and acutely angled tips i dont know how they are sharpened. Think of the ongoing life of the saw; something you CAN manage.

Go on, go to a garage sale...

totally agree with the last bit. on the first bit about rust it can be interesting because there are so many variables that can affect if the tool will rust or not, i am sure some folks could write books about it, they do no doubt. but in essence the way i see it is iron is keen to combine with oxygen and oxidise to form rust, but it needs water which is found in the air..some climates are drier than others, SA for instance is drier than Qld so it stands to reason tools are more susceptible to rust up there. obviously it depends on how the tools are stored as well and if any accidental or on purpose measures were taken to prevent the tool from rusting...for example i still have an old wooden tool box i made when i was a teenager, nothing special i knocked it up quick one day on site out of some pine and a broom stick handle with wedges each end, it kept my prized tools separate from everyones else's and was taboo for anyone to go into, even my boss! all other tools were treated as communal. i kept it like that ever since and my own employees and apprentices could use any other tools just dont touch whats in the box haha. kinda funny seeing it now and that it has lasted all these years, i still use it, it still sits in my work trailer always has it own small set of tools so i can yank it out whenever i have a small job to do. over the years it has had oil dropped onto it or a can of WD40 might have spilled etc which has probably helped protect chisels etc, although never really on the partition section where i keep my saws, couple of diff panel saws and a tenon saw. after all these years, decades, i have no doubt that the saws being stored close to timber each side of them has prevented them from rusting, i pull em even now and they are still quite shinny considering, the exact same brand and model saws that was hung in the trailer a few feet away or kept somewhere else have always rusted quicker, particularly if not used for a while

other things affect them too, of course the type of steel, in many modern tool steel they like to ad more chromium which is more resistant (well not that modern its been going for decades) to rust, obviously the steel manufacturers and tool makers like it because it stays shiny on the shelf longer, whos gonna want to buy a rusty new tool LOL. YMMV but imo chromium isnt that nice an ingredient for cutting edge carpentry tools (which is another reason i like using vintage tools for some things) it doesnt take as keen an edge and isnt as nice to sharpen, kind of clogs up files or whatever else your using to sharpen, feels a bit gummy might be the word i'm looking for. it is pretty wear resistant so i am sure some ppl like it for that. it has its place but i like the steel without it and prefer to touch up my tools more often if need be (isnt always the case), a sharper edge and easier/more pleasant to sharpen imo

i course i'm not a metallurgist so this is all just my opinion, i might be wrong , someone will know the particulars i am sure

another thing that seems to protect some tools (possibly even that Kenyon saw i'v shown earlier, its quite blue and black in places) is a type of natural metal gun bluing (or blackening) that seems to happen with some old steel, if i recall it has something to do with a different Fe iron oxide forming, instead of the red hydrated oxide (rust) it forms the blue or black Fe oxide which is same size molecule as the iron (so not flaky like red rust) and provides own its protection to some degree against red rust as i understand it

cheers
Chippy