Thread: Hand Saws. Replicating the Classics.

Nice work Paul. What did you use to carve the wheat?

Hmm, as you say, it's a somewhat flawed concept, Paul. I reckon the brief life in the catalogues is a good indicator that the buying public of the day had similar thoughts. However, I can easily see how it would have irresistible appeal to a collector of all-things Simonds. Any way you could tweak the etch to get the right number on it?

That bit of FRG looks very clean & sraight-grained, I think you just lucked into a very 'tractable' lot of the stuff. It's not a bad wood for handles when you finally bully it into shape, fine-grained enough to take a decent finish that should improve with regular use. It's getting it there that I find daunting! The FRG I've used is very prone to surface checking, even when oiled & waxed, which annoys a fusspot like me.

I still say that the right piece of Myrtle Beech should make a good substitute for Apple. It can have a similar density & texture, and the colour of old handles is so variable it should fit in the spectrum somewhere. And a bit easier to manage than FRG....

Cheers.

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Nice work Paul. What did you use to carve the wheat?

Thanks MA.

It's not quite finished.

The original wheat carving in the latter half of the nineteenth century was done by hand with a carving tool and this can normally be picked by the fineness of the "leaves." A good demonstration of this is a saw like Disston's No.12 where you can see when they went from carving by hand to using a machine. The early carving was delicate and refined.

However they carved in Applewood, which is an easy carving timber. I used Forest Red Gum, which just laughs at a carving tool. It positively sneers "Is that the best you've got?" So the stem of the wheat was done with a vee grooving tool and I have to say it was one of my worst attempts. I did it in the half light at the end of the day and I should have taken the time to set up better light. By the time I realised, it was too late so I just carried on. The leaves are just not going to happen with a carving tool so I use the method that they used around 1900.

P1060972 (Medium).JPG

Somewhere I have a link to a short video of this tool being used by the Disston Co.

Mine I bought mine from McJings. It is a savage little beast. You bring the timber to the tool freehand.

P1060973 (Medium).JPG

Regards
Paul

This is the link to the Disston video.

HD Stock Video Footage - Workers stamp and punch the steel sheets at Henry Disston & Sons factory in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

There are a few other similar videos from the same era, but the quality is less than ideal.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by IanW

Hmm, as you say, it's a somewhat flawed concept, Paul. I reckon the brief life in the catalogues is a good indicator that the buying public of the day had similar thoughts. However, I can easily see how it would have irresistible appeal to a collector of all-things Simonds. Any way you could tweak the etch to get the right number on it?

That bit of FRG looks very clean & sraight-grained, I think you just lucked into a very 'tractable' lot of the stuff. It's not a bad wood for handles when you finally bully it into shape, fine-grained enough to take a decent finish that should improve with regular use. It's getting it there that I find daunting! The FRG I've used is very prone to surface checking, even when oiled & waxed, which annoys a fusspot like me.

I still say that the right piece of Myrtle Beech should make a good substitute for Apple. It can have a similar density & texture, and the colour of old handles is so variable it should fit in the spectrum somewhere. And a bit easier to manage than FRG....

Cheers.

Ian

It had only a brief life with Simonds, but it survived a long time with Disston. Simonds only made handsaws for twenty six years anyway. This was the Bishop "Bulldog No.200"

Bishop Bulldog No.200.jpg

It had a little more curvature to the handle so might appeal more to you. As I post this, I immediatly see an error I made in the the initial post as this advertisement clearly states the Bulldog was made in sizes from 18" to 28"!

I have FRG from two sources. One is up here in QLD and the other from the Hunter Valley in NSW. I don't think either are as difficult as you have found. My Spotted Gum is less of a problem than yours too and I guess this points to something we have both stated at times that timber is so very variable. My biggest concern with FRG is that the hardness will wear out expensive hand tools before their time. Consequently I use the rasps only at the last moment and employ whatever technique seems the most appropriate to "hog off" the bulk of the waste when shaping.

I have a timber that is the same colour as Apple, although that is where the resemblance ends, but I don't know what species (other than a Eucalypt) it was. It was in our back yard and when it was felled, because it was threatening the integrity of the house, I saved a bit.

Small unknown eucalypt.JPGSmall unknown Eucalypt 3.JPG

Applewood is of course of variable colour and tends to be pale beige, but interestingly it is always depicted in the catalogues as if it is dark. As time went on miscellaneous hardwoods were used instead of the traditional saw timbers and those were indeed coloured, but certainly not in the early days.

In the final analysis I use whatever timber I have providing it is a hardwood.

Regards
Paul

Ian

I have been researching Disston's Compact. I found it in a 1918 catalogue but not in 1914 and, interestingly, not in 1886 either. Then I went to the Disstonian Institute and found this:

"The saw appears in some 1918 catalogs, but not the 1918 catalog that is widely reprinted. That catalog has a 1918 date on it, but a closer look at the copyright page shows the catalog is really a 1923 edition of the earlier catalog. The facsimile below is from one of the earlier 1918 catalogs. All of which is to say the Compact 1874 Handsaw was discontinued between 1918 and 1923. The saw is not in the 1914 catalog either, so the production time for this model was brief. The Compact 1874 was priced the same as a 26" D-8 saw, $22.50 per dozen wholesale in 1918.
The compact saw seems to have been offered for sale at two points in the company's history, the mid-1870's (but not shown in the 1876 reprinted catalog) and the mid-1910's. I suspect it was put on the market twice and failed to sell both times. That said, it is an interesting saw."


It seems they arrived at the same conclusion as me, but a long time ago .

My conjecture is that Simonds represented a real threat to Disston's dominance in the market and when Simonds introduced their No.56, Disston responded and ressurected their model as they would not have wished to be outdone in any aspect of the range.

This is from the 1918 catalogue and the description does appear to refer to a "revised" model and notably it refers to this style being "originated" by Disston, but I could be reading too much into that:

Disston Compact 1918 catalogue.png

I don't know where the Bishop Bulldog fits into the scheme of things as I have no access to any Bishop catalogues from that era.

Regards
Paul

Hello again. I will have to keep an eye out for some myrtle beech, it was once common enough where I live but now much harder to find (friends have a couple of huge examples on their property). The apple wood I recently "milled" (I cut up some foot long sections into roughly inch thick slabs) showed great contrast between the heartwood (quite dark reddy brown) and the sapwood (a yellowy beige). The logs were about 10" round. Only another 51 weeks until it's ready!!

Getting close to completion now. The big question at this stage is how to finish the handle and to my mind there is no right way, but here is my way.

First up, after sanding, the timber gets two coats of matt varnish ( the finish should appeal to Simplicity ) at twenty four hour intervals with a light sand in between coats

P1070002 (Medium).JPG

Then, after leaving it to harden off for forty eight hours, I rub Scandinavian Teak Oil in with steel wool. Alternatives here would be to substitute Danish Oil and/or a scourer (Kitchen type; grey, maroon or green)) could be used instead of steel wool. I do this until the oil coating has gone dry.

P1070005 (Medium).JPG

This is after lightly buffing by hand with a soft cloth. I was wearing this cloth until last Sunday but SWMBO declared I didn't want to wear it any more because it was threadbare and now it serves another purpose .

P1070006 (Medium).JPG

Hand buffing is a little tedious so I use the same technique that Disston use in this video, but on a slightly smaller scale (video is only 50 seconds, but relevant bit comes up at 40 secs for the impatient among you.)

HD Stock Video Footage - Specialty saw blades being manufactured in the Disston plant at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (criticalpast.com)


P1070007 (Medium).JPG

I use an automotive style buffer with a lambswool bonnet: A high end machine: I think it cost about $22. I lost it for a short while so I bought another, which enabled me to locate this one almost immediately . It leaves your hands with a distinct tingling sensation after about a minutes worth of use because of the vibration.

P1070008 (Medium).JPG


And this is the saw assembled
P1070011 (Medium).JPG with the all important "let in" holding thingyP1070014 (Medium).JPG

One aspect I nglected to mention was that all the toolbox saws have very chunky horns. This was very likely a conscious design feature to resist the potential damage of getting knocked about in the toolbox. The horns are easily the most vulnerable part of the saw.

P1070015 (Medium).JPG

Similar?

Simonds No.56. 1916.jpg

I just have to sharpen it now.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Getting close to completion now. The big question at this stage is how to finish the handle and to my mind there is no right way, but here is my way.

First up, after sanding, the timber gets two coats of matt varnish ( the finish should appeal to Simplicity ) at twenty four hour intervals with a light sand in between coats

P1070002 (Medium).JPG

Then, after leaving it to harden off for forty eight hours, I rub Scandinavian Teak Oil in with steel wool. Alternatives here would be to substitute Danish Oil and/or a scourer (Kitchen type; grey, maroon or green)) could be used instead of steel wool. I do this until the oil coating has gone dry.

P1070005 (Medium).JPG

This is after lightly buffing by hand with a soft cloth. I was wearing this cloth until last Sunday but SWMBO declared I didn't want to wear it any more because it was threadbare and now it serves another purpose .

P1070006 (Medium).JPG

Hand buffing is a little tedious so I use the same technique that Disston use in this video, but on a slightly smaller scale (video is only 50 seconds, but relevant bit comes up at 40 secs for the impatient among you.)

HD Stock Video Footage - Specialty saw blades being manufactured in the Disston plant at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (criticalpast.com)


P1070007 (Medium).JPG

I use an automotive style buffer with a lambswool bonnet: A high end machine: I think it cost about $22. I lost it for a short while so I bought another, which enabled me to locate this one almost immediately . It leaves your hands with a distinct tingling sensation after about a minutes worth of use because of the vibration.

P1070008 (Medium).JPG


And this is the saw assembled
P1070011 (Medium).JPG with the all important "let in" holding thingyP1070014 (Medium).JPG

One aspect I nglected to mention was that all the toolbox saws have very chunky horns. This was very likely a conscious design feature to resist the potential damage of getting knocked about in the toolbox. The horns are easily the most vulnerable part of the saw.

P1070015 (Medium).JPG

Similar?

Simonds No.56. 1916.jpg

I just have to sharpen it now.

Regards
Paul

Very excellent reproduction there a Paul.

I think possibly if you got rid of those crappy slotted screws, an used some prober Phillips head screws,it would look better, but that’s just my humble opinion [emoji6].

Cheers Matt.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I think possibly if you got rid of those crappy slotted screws, an used some prober Phillips head screws,it would look better, but that’s just my humble opinion [emoji6].

Cheers Matt.

Why didn't I think of that one?



(rhetorical question!)

Regards
Paul