Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567
Results 91 to 94 of 94
  1. #91
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,075

    Default

    Have we now convinced BobL that he's not capable of working entirely by hand if he wants to, by telling him what other people can't do, what other people did, or what they preferred (with some economic viewpoint?).

    Two weeks ago, my tradesman neighbor came over to me with four fence top rails for his deck. I guess four have rotted, he's not of means necessarily and didn't want to replace his entire deck. When he went to the orange and blue borgs to get top rails, nothing matched his deck (which is about 14 years old). In the world of "just get it redone and add it to the loan", I guess he should've redone the whole deck.

    In the meantime, while his top rails were outside, they took a little sun and started to bow. He asked if I had a table saw and if I could help him fit them on the spindles on his deck or reprofile them a little bit to fit as nothing fit (the spindles for the prior version were wider than the groove in the new top rail.

    I told him that I'd take them in my shop and just reprofile them to look like the new ones. He was on then to go buy all new spindles for his whole deck when they just needed to fit under the top rails that I was about to profile for him. When I said I"d do the work by hand, he thought I was high.

    I asked him for one of the rotted old rails (they were gone) And then went over with a profile gauge and a caliper and tool measurements off of the remaining rails. There wasn't enough stock on the new rails to make them identical, but i could make them close and I told him to wait - not to go buy all new spindles as they wouldn't match (which is what he'd gotten to) and that we'd notch the top edges of them.

    It took about half an hour to reprofile the not-nearly-matching top rails for the decking to something that was close and another half hour or so to notch all of the spindles that went under them without taking the spindles off of the deck. I didn't use any power tools. Not sure were they would've fit into the equation, but they surely would've made a mess of things.

    I don't do this kind of thing often, but it's bash it out free and quick work compared to making most things. because the spindles were all still attached at the bottom of the deck and I didn't want to go to the trouble of removing them, it wasn't ideal to mark and cut all of them. The process was more or less like splitting tenons - mark, crosscut in situ, split off the waste.

    I think the neighbor probably saved about two hundred dollars and I offered an hour of labor. Had I not been an HT only woodworker, I wouldn't have guessed that the rails could be profiled in a "worth my time" way, and the fact that they were bowed added some challenge. They're screwed to the spindles, so the bow is out.

    I don't believe bob can't do hand tool work only, despite the constant obnoxious insistence that it's not worth anyone's time or that it's too physically arduous or any number of other explanations. If Bob still wants to have a go at this, I hope he'll give it a shot. If I'm still alive at 72 (nothing is guaranteed on this earth), I'll still be doing it. My grandfather, as mentioned earlier, died at 79 while taking a break from felling trees. Woodworking by hand isn't remotely as physically difficult, and you could still fill your house in two years and be begging for more space of takers for things that you're making - without having to give up floor space to machines you may not want.

  2. # ADS
    Google Adsense Advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many





     
  3. #92
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Brisbane (western suburbs)
    Age
    77
    Posts
    12,093

    Default

    All good, DW, & I think many of us would have done something very similar with the tops of the slats. Like you, I can't really see a power tool in that equation unless you pulled out al of the slats, ganged them, & ran them over the TS, or maybe used a jigsaw instead of a hand saw but that'd be more work & much messier, in my hands! Why not just run a groove the entire length of the rail as I've seen done commonly. The tops of the slats can be located with a nail, punched & puttied (presuming it's all going to be painted) or screws if you insist...

    BTW, the OP who kicked-off the debate is "Bucky" - BobL (post #13) was merely making the sensible suggestion that there are certain jobs along the way from tree to tea-table that machines can handle many times quicker & with far less effort than hand tools entail - particularly if you are using some of the very hard woods our country specialises in.....

    Cheers,
    IW

  4. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,075

    Default

    my apologies for getting the handles wrong. My point is, though, Bucky asked if he could work entirely by hand. Yes, he could. He might even enjoy it and if he does a significant amount, he'll build more than will physically fit in his house. What could a retiree do in a given day hand dimensioning and other woodwork at age 72? I'd say with well selected wood, at least 4 board feet or so plus all of the joinery that you could add to that. Without resorting to softwoods.

    But everyone sort of decided for him that it was absurd (I doubt anyone on here has done it to any extent to even know what level of physical strain is needed once you're competent). My only question for a neurologist would be whether or not neural development both in the brain and locally (hands, etc) is too stunted at 72 to physically master the dexterity. IF not, then no problem. Hand tool work could be done by someone 80, just not someone who decides they can't do it and won't figure out how.

    Time and again, I come to forums and see "nobody can get anything done hand ripping, that's why nobody does it" or " there's no difference between a scrub plane and a jack plane", or the offputting post in the middle of this thread about how makers of note master both (and those makers have to make ends meet teaching students. As much as I respect phil lowe, he couldn't make a living as a maker and flatly stated that to some of his students.

    If someone wants to give something a go, let them have at it.

    As far as the rails, the bottom width of the new rails is just about identical to the top width of the spindles in prior style that the orange borg sold. Any attempt to widen the groove would've left softwood about a 16th inch thick, which would've resulted in blowing the sides out when fitting the spindles. The groove was left as is and the spindle tops split about a half inch narrower so that the rails look like a flush fit. Close observation would show one set of rails to be slightly narrower than the next, but nobody will look that close.

    I spent a half hour reprofiling 25 feet of rails to match the others. If others would've done it, I'd like to see it. the version of me that worked with power tools a decade ago would've taken two hours to do it, and I wouldn't have done it - especially with some of the rails being bowed 4 inches or so over their length. There may be a few in the HT section who would've figured out the same thing, but the average woodworker would be trying to figure out how to get a TS or router to cut the same profile, they'd have taken longer and had fits with less than ideal stock.

    I've spent a lot of time learning to woodwork efficiently. sawing, jointing and thicknessing 15 board feet on a weekend morning wouldn't be out of the question, and by that, I mean accurately. Almost nothing of what I've learned out of experimentation and curiosity matches any advice I've ever been given, but the advice on posture, effort, design, etc, would've surely made it hard to figure out how to woodwork by hand. hard and slow. I started out at that point and then ignored most of the advice I was given. It's not the difficulty of working by hand that makes people not do it - most of us are screaming for some kind of exercise that isn't boring, it's the complete lack of accurate guidance on how to do it (or at least get started in the same place). I find it a bit disheartening.

    The first thing a toolmaker told me (someone who is still making tools for a living) when I said I wanted to make my own planes, also, is that I could heat treat my own blades, but they'd never really be any good, and certainly not as good as hock. I tested irons two years ago and a simple starrett O1 iron that I made in about an hour outlasted a hock iron by about 5% head to head without any complicated process and nothing more than a paint can forge and some experience. The lack of creativity and the poo-pooing of trying anything or encouraging anyone else to do just gives me little faith in most advice really being owned by the person giving it. It's just borrowed lines given from elsewhere.

  5. #94
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Dandenong Ranges
    Posts
    1,865

    Default

    Hi DW. One of the things I love about this forum is the knowledge that is shared. In many ways it replaces the handing down from master to apprentice. But information is not enough by itself. Nothing can replace the experience of doing (and watching others doing as well). I can still remember how amazed I was to use my scrub plane for the first time, what using a handplane with a properly sharpened blade feels like and the empowerment coming from sharpening my own handsaws. And I am a fully qualified carpenter with over 25years experience. And I still have more to learn. Much more.

Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567

Similar Threads

  1. QUEENSLAND Hand tools- Lie Nielsen, Bad Axe, Gramercy Tools, Glen Drake
    By kfinch in forum WOODWORK - Tools & Machinery
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 19th November 2020, 09:12 PM
  2. N.S.W. Western Sydney - Hand tools and power tools all must go and crazy prices
    By JRW1970 in forum WOODWORK - Tools & Machinery
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 11th November 2017, 11:55 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •