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  1. #1
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    Default Handplanes - woodies - DIY - any reason why not?

    With all my new-found enthusiasm for hand made things, I was going ballistic with my newly acquired (but second hand!) Veritas gear.

    Very nice!

    BUT I was was getting concerned with my investments in them..... I'm falling into the trap of what I was doing before The Big Move --> Buying ever more specialised gadgets and accessories to do one-off things. This costs too much, takes up space, plus they don't solve a range of problems.

    TONIGHT I happened to come across a video by Paul Sellers. I dont watch him regularly, no real reason really, but this video was exactly what I needed.

    Made me think - WHY are we buying tools that will last 100 years and made to tolerances the 1969 Moon Landing crew would be proud of... for woodworking!

    We should MAKE THEM!

    I was going to buy a Luban shoulder plane, which looks mighty nice (I was going to ask The Sages and those in the know their opinions on it), but now I think I might try making one with an "old" chisel or some O2, A2 or powdered metal steel from Artisan Supplies Tool Steels - Artisan Supplies

    Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing?

    Besides the Feel Good factor, is it really just easier to buy a shoulder plane and get on with it?


    Last edited by woodPixel; 7th December 2019 at 12:17 PM. Reason: typos

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  3. #2
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    Default

    I thought to add, my thoughts were influenced by this thread by IanW ! --> Couple of shoulder planes..

  4. #3
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    I am in awe of Ian's plane builds as well and want to have a crack at a couple when I can find the time. As a first step i am keen to build a couple of simple woodies to learn some of the basics.
    Give it a go, have a bit of fun and start the learning curve.

    Tony
    You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde

  5. #4
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    Vintage woodies are fairly easily obtained and tend to be very cheap; basic shoulder, rebate, hollows and rounds can be bought for $20 each, side beads about $25.

    As for making them, check out threads by forum members Planemaker, RayG and ex-member Lightwood; they have some very interesting builds.

    Just so happens tomorrow I’m going to be giving an appraisal on a small quantity of woodies so the owner can sell them with a bit more knowledge of what he actually has. If you think you might be interested flick me a PM.
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  6. #5
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    Default

    sorry to take away from teh main thrust of this thread, but the ebay link piqued my interest. Given this thread, and the apparent name match, would you be buying from them?

  7. #6
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    Only via Fleabay as they use Paypal and currently have a 100% feedback rating. I would also be taking a screenshot of the item showing clearly where it says the item is located, in this case Melbourne. I have had a previous stouch with a different seller who advertised his stock as coming from Australia, but when I needed to do a claim back through Paypal they insisted I pay for registered return postage... to Shanghai.

    Paypal is very heavily biased towards protecting the seller, not the purchaser and I really dislike them but unfortunately they have integrated themselves so deeply with Fleabay it is the default payment method. When there is a dispute the Paypal system is 95% fully automated so you have to keep badgering and replying and working your way through the options until your grievance eventually ends up in front of a human. A bit like automated telephone answering systems designed to drive you batpoop unless you are looking for the option that gives them money!
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by poundy View Post
    sorry to take away from teh main thrust of this thread, but the ebay link piqued my interest. Given this thread, and the apparent name match, would you be buying from them?
    McJing sell a range of the Luban tools - McJING Online Tools Products Search There's no doubt in my mind whom I'd rather deal with.

    LanceC made a quick and dirty shoulder plane recently using a chisel - A plough plane in a pinch with a problem

    As someone who has to watch his pennies fairly carefully I'm often gobsmacked by the amount of money some of the people on here spend on tools. My dovetail saw is an old rehandled, sharpened and fettled tenon saw. It works perfectly! Heaps of the tools I use are second hand or repurposed from something else, I don't think it holds me back to any extent. The propensity of some to buy tools that they don't really need is constantly demonstrated by the sale of 'unused' and 'hardly used' tools on here.

    +1 for Paul Sellers. He teaches you to get by with what you have, or what you can afford, rather then telling to go out and spend a squillion dollars.

  9. #8
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    Agree about Paul Sellers. There is a lovely YouTube video where he sharpens a $20 set of chisels from Aldi and gives them a very good review.

    Brian

  10. #9
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    Evan, I would recommend that you use your planes for a while before considering making any. You need the experience to understand the dynamics of planes - which are not that complex - to appreciate some of the important details.

    When you are ready, start with a couple of basic Krenov-style smoothers. These are really easy to make, yet can produce such wonderful results in a fabulous experience.

    The reason for Sellers recommending and building cheap and simple tools is just his shtik ... his target audience are those starting out with limited financial means. I love to watch his builds for the hand skills and some no-nonsense advice, but get a little nauseated these days as he sermonises endlessly. He refers to himself as a “lifestyle” woodworker. I thought woodworking was about building something.

    The reason why there are tools that belong in an art show is that anything can - and does - get art status. Any why not? For some it is fun and for others it is not important. Amongst others, Ian enjoys the aesthetics of his tools. I do too. I love and appreciate good design ... in whatever form it takes - furniture design, car design, house design .... tool design. I am sure that Sellers does not expect the quickie tool to last more than 5 minutes (e.g. the router plane block-of-wood-with-chisel-driven-through). We spend on tools for many reasons.

    I once built a bridle plough plane. It is a fabulous tool. I did not build it to use primarily (and, indeed, I do not use it much). It was a challenge, and I loved this as much as the way it looked.





    I prefer to use a Veritas Combo plough plane for its ease of set up and mobility. It is ultra reliable and I also love its looks.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  11. #10
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    I should add that beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. There is an elegant beauty in the shoulder plane in Sellers’ picture. Incidentally, this is a design by Roubo.

    My most cherished plane is this one ...



    This is how Jim Krenov made them for himself (this is one of his planes). I would grab this one first in the event of a fire.

    Here is a link to building a Krenov-style plane: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMad...vSmoother.html

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  12. #11
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    You know Derek, for a certified fact, that I look at your site and get an overwhelming sense of .... hopelessness.

    It makes me sad!

    You have so many nice things on there and so many pieces of fantastic workmanship.


  13. #12
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    Woodpixel's original question, and very valid it was, revolved around the practical side of things. Is economy and functionality sufficient? The aesthetic and indeed artistic factor inevitably leads on from that. Why do we even bother with such things? Is it just because we can? Is it because there is more to our woodworking than mere results and productivity? Is there a degree of vanity there?

    Just as an illustration, I am providing an elderly friend with some black plastic drums so she can drip feed her selected garden plants. At the moment she uses an up turned two litre plastic bottle with the bottom cut off. I have rescued some 20L black drums from work, which were destined for the tip. They have a screw-in bung near the bottom that can be adjusted to release water at whatever drip rate is desired. A wide screwdriver would work to release the bung. A piece of flat metal bar held by pliers would work. However, I made a "bung" driver. It is quite unnecessary: An indulgence even and it works no better than a wide screw driver and only a little bit more conveniently so why did I do it?

    I'm not sure I completely know and I have to say my time could have been spent more usefully on the string of other projects I have stacking up. It just seemed like a nice thing to do (I made up two: one for us as well). Does it just appeal to the dopamines?

    P1050816 (Medium).JPGP1050817 (Medium).JPGP1050818 (Medium).JPG

    I think the dopamines play a big part. As you can see in the second pic, I put one handle under the garden tap to highlight the grain so it improved the appearance. Completely unnecessary other than to beautify the object for your appraisal. The irony here is that I subscribe to the theory that function is beauty and this is contrary to what I have just shown above. I have not finished grinding up the blades incidentally.

    I also admire hugely those people that make their own tools and how beautiful they are (umm, I mean the tools not so much the peo.....You know what I mean ).

    I just love looking at those beautifully made planes for example. I also appreciate the Paul Sellars philosophy. Not everybody has a Phd in tool making or even their use and he makes it simple for the average person in the street and casual woodworkers to comprehend the intricacies in plain simple language: Things that are so obvious once pointed out. In that regard he is so good for woodworking. In fact I would suggest that he is good for many woodworkers with even more than a casual acquaintance with dead trees.

    Just returning to the original thrust of this thread, I would comment that you can get by with very little. I have not watched that particular Sellars video (I know I should and I probably will), but I expect he used Radiata Pine or similar. That might have a limited life expectancy so a more robust choice of wood could be selected and in doing so we have our first upgrade. While we are at that we might choose a timber that is more attractive (second upgrade). The we might add a little style to the plane, just for fun (third upgrade). Then we may select a better blade as we envisage more work for this plane.

    Now we are on the slippery slope. Tool making could well be the "Ice" of the woodworker's world. Welcome to the world of the addicted.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  14. #13
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    Well said Paul .

    I watched that P Sellers video today and enjoyed it. It's another personal preference thing I know so some people probably wouldn't appreciate it but I like his style of presentation.

    As for the original question, there's no reason not to make your own especially if you are closer to the time rich / cash poor end of the scale. Also, it's making something out of wood so it's just another version of doing what we like to do.
    Cheers, Bob the labrat

    Measure once and.... the phone rings!

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony_A View Post
    I...... As a first step i am keen to build a couple of simple woodies to learn some of the basics.
    Give it a go, have a bit of fun and start the learning curve.....
    Hear hear!! Make a start on something! There's a fair chance your first effort or two at making anything like a plane will be less than perfect, but if you take a bit of care, it will probably work reasonably well, & be an encouragement. The only downside to making your own tools is it can become your main game, to the exclusion of more 'productive' output (ask my better half ).

    As you may have noticed, I'm mildly biased towards DIY toolmaking. Making a laminated woodie or two is a very good way to start on plane making - material costs are minimal to zero, so you have nothing to lose and lots to gain. However, since it's a shoulder plane you are thinking of, I would suggest that's an equally good place to begin. Laminating bits of brass to make a shoulder plane is essentially the same as making a Krenov-style bench plane, but you use brass instead of wood (& the brass comes already "thicknessed" for you - how easy is that?), & stick the bits together with rivets instead of glue. Making your own tools will save you a little bit (maybe!), but it will teach you lots about how they function & how to get the best out of them.

    OTH, just to be a complete hypocrite, you can indeed do far more with a basic tool kit than most people who've entered the hobby over the last 30-40 years might think. Woodworking as a serious hobby took off in the early 70s, and the number of high-end tools available to us has multiplied even faster. But you don't have to have a full set of Lie-Nielsen tools to make a piece of heirloom-quality furniture. Some of the stuff I made 35 years ago with a very, very basic tool kit is no worse than I could make now, with my far more elaborate set of gear. I could certainly do it more easily, but is that due to better tools, or more practice? I strongly suspect the latter has a lot to do with it. Seeing some of the work done by skilled artisans in Asia, using very ordinary-looking home-made tools made me think about my own needs!

    Deciding what we "need" on the basis of what's available is our downfall. We see tools with 14 brass knobs and our eyes light up like candles & our hearts tell us that having such a beautiful bit of gear will turn us into experts, even though our heads are trying to tell us otherwise. If you really need a shoulder plane, right now, making it will cost you time & money, and may not be practical. The McJing plane will almost certainly function well enough to do what a shoulder plane has to do, and if it does need a bit of fettling, you'll probably figure it out pretty quickly & learn something into the bargain. At least the blade should be ok, I've used quite a few of the Mujingfang blades in my own planes these last few years & I'm favourably impressed by their quality, they come nicely ground & take very little effort to refine, and all of the blades I've had so far hold their edge as well as the equivalent in more expensive brands.

    I bought a LAJ from McJings at a woodshow some years ago. It was one of those impulse buys that looking back, I have no idea what prompted it - I think it was as much curiosity aas anything - how bad can this thing be? When I first tried it at home it had a couple of minor issues and I was starting to think I'd wasted my money, but after tidying up a few details, it works very well. In fact, I was using it today and it occurred to me that I always reach for this plane when I want a larger low-angle job, and my LV low-angle smoother sits neglected because this thing (at half the price!) just works better for me...

    So there's my (conflicting) 2c worth...

    Cheers,
    IW

  16. #15
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    Not only didn't I know that a BUNG DRIVER was even a thing... now I know a bloke with two.

    Bet that's not a pub friendly conversation.


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