Thread: Some Handsaw Refurb

I've been watching it for several hours now on a loop but I still haven't unpicked all the symbolism in this surrealist masterpiece. The post apocalyptic Robinson Crusoe thing McGee develops here is very powerful. There's something at once poignant and ominous about the artist stoically sawing a log tied to a palm tree. The hovering mid nineties hatch-back hints at deeper themes of insanity and the ultimate futility of all human endeavour.

I can't cap Matt's reply, but I was going to ask if it's a regular Sand Groper custom to park the car on the woodpile?

And yes, it certainly helps to have someone on the other end of the saw. Even a reluctant 10yr old, it seems!
Cheers,

Originally Posted by Berlin

The hovering mid nineties hatch-back hints at deeper themes of insanity and the ultimate futility of all human endeavour.

I have two issues with this.

1. The VL was 1986-88 ...and ... hatch-back! Wash your mouth out!

and

2. I'll have you know that anything I have ever posted ... "hints at deeper themes of insanity ... etc etc etc"

Originally Posted by pmcgee

I have two issues with this.

1. The VL was 1986-88 ...and ... hatch-back! Wash your mouth out!

and

2. I'll have you know that anything I have ever posted ... "hints at deeper themes of insanity ... etc etc etc"

1. is the back missing from the not hatch back? Hmm, extra levels to unravel.
2. yep. It's not looking good.

Matt

In most cases i reckon there are better options than the M tooth (at thats being generous and just allowing for something i've forgotten, quite a poor design imo) it has a number of drawbacks imo for most jobs.

but dear Paul, i'm not surprised you have had 'some' improvement but its still not anywhere near right! or the way i would set it up, nor how it was designed to be set up i dare say regardless of what any of those books say (they may be right on some various points i'm just talking from experience is all, not whats in the books, i wouldnt be surprised if they agree with me though, i'm just not going to wade through them right now), the most amazing thing is just how inventive you find ways to make a saw cut even when it doesnt want too ! , it really is incredible! you had those rip saws a while back you put into painful labour doing X cut duty but found that one saw that did it slightly better (it was a half rip which had a slight bevel so naturally it faired a little better), now you have this X cut saw and putting it into ripping duty! which isnt exactly a no no, as X cuts can rip (not as well as rip saws mind) but rip saws shouldnt be used for X cutting imo (sorry Ian, i know you dont mind the small rip tooth 15ppi for X cut, but i prefer not to for reasons we dont need to bother with here)......anyway i can see what you trying to develop by filing the space (90deg) in front of the tooth, a rip tooth, which shows some ingenuity but the saw is still way way under par following that line of thinking

the teeth in the earlier example wernt filed very well at all (but you were on the right track) and thats is where most of your trouble came from imo (not to mention you were X cutting then), they wernt jointed by the looks (if they were it was god awful), which really doesnt help , you only sharpened a bevel of sorts but didnt develop the tip of the tooth at all (one of the most important places) and you left the space between the teeth blunt (which isnt meant to be doing all the cutting, but it is meant to scrape or rake the bottom of the kerf) it was never going to cut well without doing all the other steps in setting it up correctly, not done it just wasnt going to cut well..now you have some apparent improvement, but for the wrong reasons, you have the spacer edge (the U shape) filed, which presents a sharp rip tooth like profile (thats why its cutting better at the moment, not to mention you changed from X cutting, to ripping for the latter test), the other front section you filed , at that angle, is doing sweet ...um, bugger all , its meant to be doing the slicing/cutting (using a bevel and sharp tip) which even though while cutting rip fashion might not be overly helpful, it will help. i have an old saying when i see a saw performing so bad...but it cant be repeated in public..goes something like that saw is as blunt as my xxxx , actually that saying is used well before a saw gets to the stage of yours

so at the moment you have effectively one pseudo rip tooth spaced very far apart doing some ripping, everything else is dead weight and not contibuting. Once sharpened correctly that saw should work fine as a one person saw ,although its missing handles (one person doesnt mean one handed) and the one it has doesnt look complete which must be uncomfortable in some way, of course having someone at the other end wont hurt , if energy is lacking, so long as they manage to work in sink with you (generally it then becomes a pull saw for each person, not a push saw!)

so more than worrying about sawing action i would address those other points, thats where the bang for buck will come from, the action will likely come naturally. if you sharpen it correctly it will be deadly in your hands (anyones hands), you will be A M A Z E D at how quickly it will cut.

having said that though the M tooth is an odd duck imo, in its standard form it can be versatile ,X cut, kinda rip, and probably pruning might arguably be its strong point (really, it doesnt do that particularly well either) but in all cases there are better options, much better. i tend to think it was a pattern sold to farmers for the many and varying work found on the land as an all rounder, jack of all but didnt do any of them particularly well..there are ways to make it (file it) work very proficient at X cutting by changing it somewhat from its standard form, but its never going to be a very good rip saw, other options like Ian mentioned about the frame saw for re-sawing (i didnt pay enough attention to realise you wanted this for re-sawing some off that huon pine) would fair better or even some of your hand rip saws would probably do a better job in a pinch for a one time job (not cutting the whole width at one time but tackling it at angles and bits at a time) assuming its just a couple of feet we are talking about not the whole length! (all things being equal a decent dedicated rip saw will cut prob 5 or more times better than an M tooth) huon pine is nice and easy to work with i think so that might make it easier no matter what saw you use..if you filed the saw as sharp X cut it might work on the huon, i cant see in the pics but possibly the grain is all over the place at the wide end anyway


cheers
chippy

Originally Posted by ch!ppy

huon pine is nice and easy to work with i think so that might make it easier no matter what saw you use..i
cheers
chippy

That's very much what I'm hoping / counting-on

What a cliffhanger.. waiting now for episode 2 when you get closer to the rope.

Be careful what you say ... he might hear you ...

I drove past some green-waste out on the verge ... eucalypt / gum I think ...

So this is the unchanged tooth treatment on a piece of wet green log.

This is the slab in question ... a friend got it in Tassie ... and would like to surprise his brother with a coffee table.

Huon 008.jpg Huon 007.jpg

Starting the one-man saw is all over the place, so I latched onto what Chippy had said about sawing in from the sides.

I started marking out 50mm deep along the side using a marking gauge and a chisel held at right angles.

Then started a bit of connect-the-dots with a 5-1/2ppi #12 ...
Huon 009.jpg Huon 010.jpg Huon 014.jpg

The cutting was good - work-holding was the challenge.

In about 10 minutes we have made a real good start, and a fine kerf - see the saw-dust to see how little material is being removed.

I rearranged the slab upright to start cutting further with a 5ppi #12.

I was surprised at the significant difference I felt between the 5-1/2ppi and the 5ppi.

(5-1/2ppi = 4-1/2 tpi = 5.64mm tooth pitch. 5ppi = 4tpi = 6.35mm tooth pitch ... roughly 10% wider)

We were really starting to cook with gas, but checking the rear side I found I was losing direction at the rear side of the cut.

Huon 023.jpg Huon 024.jpg

Tomorrow I will mark and restart on the far side.
This is certainly doable - pretty easily - it's the work-holding that is the challenge.

Result so far:

All sorted

DSCF9247.jpg DSCF9249.jpg

DSCF9253.jpg DSCF9254.jpg DSCF9255.jpg

The kerf looks pretty good now, but there was quite a bit of mucking around in the middle there getting the far side kerf back on track.

Also there were internal stresses working out too. Cutting some away and then coming back to it the next day or later in the same day, you could tell that there had been some movement inside.

DSCF9259.jpg DSCF9260.jpg DSCF9261.jpg

DSCF9262.jpg DSCF9263.jpg

I am going to get such a rubbishing from the bandsaw. "What's the problem human? Can't cut straight?"
I'll never hear the end of it.

DSCF9265.jpg DSCF9266.jpg

I haven't had any experience of Huon Pine before, so while not a complete surprise, I hadn't been thinking of the grain in the final piece.

Looking pretty good should make a great table top ...

2012-11-03 20.04.14.jpg 2012-11-03 20.02.24.jpg 2012-11-03 20.02.32.jpg 2012-11-03 20.02.49.jpg 2012-11-03 20.02.57.jpg