Thread: Help dismantling an old Aussie Pope Falcon hand plane for some restoration

I hit the tank button unintentionally.
Any ho the handle should just come off the long rod.
The rod is threaded top and bottom.
Id try just wriggling the handle to loosen it.
There is a small locator under the front of these smaller handles whereas the larger planes have a small screw down into the bed.
If you can wriggle the handle up over this locator you should be able to rotate it more easily to loosen it up and pull it off.
H.

I wouldn't be totally convinced there isn't a goodly growth of rust down near the bottom of the stud. The fact that the top nut came off easily is usually a good sign, but some woods that were used for handles in Oz are very high in tannins which will get the demon rust going with the merest hint of moisture. I can't think of any other reason why the wood should be stuck on, unless some clown decided to assemble it with a dollop of Araldite. As Henry said, just persevere, you can get pretty physical with it without too much danger of irreparable damage, the worst that can happen is that you might bend the stud a bit, but that isn't usually a calamity, you can straighten it up. If you can ease the wood up enough to clear the little nipple under the toe (you can't see it, but it's there to stop the handle twisting), you can screw the handle back & forth in a wider arc and it should come free pretty quickly...

Cheers,

Thanks Ian - I'll give it a bit of English!

It's already wobbling a few degrees both from the horizontal and vertically so I might just give a bit more oomph

Thanks - got it! See photo.

Unfortunately the rod is bent. I will straighten up carefully with pliers.

I had a little moment of victory before I remember that now this frees me up to put all the metal parts in rust removal electrolysis and oil up, repaint the sole, flatten the sole and sides (and pray for square sides), remove the flaking varnish off the handles, scrub the handles and re-oil... flatten the frog, try and de-gunk the plane blade and chip breaker and clean up the chipbreaker edge... and then I suppose get started on the blade ... :\

IMG_20200119_155851.jpg

Originally Posted by Cgcc

T...... (and pray for square sides).......

Why's that Cg?? Do you intend using it as a shooting plane?. You can use a #4 for a shooting plane at a pinch (I was going to say "if you have masoschistic tendencies" ), but they aren't really suited to that role, imo. If you only ever intend using it as a smoother (a role for which it is suited), it don't matter a hoot if the sides are square or out by a degree or two.

Just get the sole reasonably flat, the frog sitting firmly on the sole, and fit the cap-iron carefully to the blade and you should be away. My daily users are utterly devoid of paint, they'd lost it years ago, long before they came to live with me, but the guts of each one has been carefully attended to and they all make luverly shavings.....

Cheers,

Hi Ian,

Oh no particular reason - even though a newbie I just know I'll be collecting a million hand planes.

It's just it would give it just that little bit of extra versatility at a pinch, the ability to use the side as a handy try-square, etc.

... Okay I'll admit, it's just *knowing*. I would be better off never checking!

Originally Posted by Cgcc

..... I would be better off never checking! ....

Yep.

To be honest, it was something I fussed over many years ago, because I read somewhere in my early days of seeking plane knowledge that "the sides must be square to the sole". It was just one of those shibboleths you tend to accept without question. Later, I went through a 'woody' phase and discovered square sides were a transient property, dependent on climate & weather, so it dawned on me to ask myself why it mattered on most planes. I guess what it does indicate is that if an old cast-bodied plane still has square sides, it was machined from a stable casting (i.e. properly aged for stress relief). In the mid 70s I was living in a place called Guelph, in Canada, which happened to boast a Rockwell Beaver factory (Delta's forbear), and I wondered at the piles of rusting castings of lathe beds & other bits & bobs filling the large yard beside the man building - I thought "Gee, they have a lot of rejects!".

It wasn't 'til I'd done some reading on casting iron that I realised they were being stress-relieved, though if you left me outside for a Summer (tropical!) & Winter (sub-arctic!) in that place, I'd be pretty stressed. A lot of the cheap Bailey type knock-offs were made from fresh castings and were prone to warping & twisting down the track. I have never heard that was a problem with Falcons, so I assume they treated their castings appropriately.

Another thing I come across all the time is people fussing over the backlash in Mr. Bailey's patent adjuster. It has to have some backlash, because the cam has to rotate in an arc in a straight slot in the cap-iron and cannot be a too-tight fit. If the parts are very carefully made & matched, the backlash can be as little as a quarter turn, but I find the average on a well-used specimen is more like two full turns and can be even more. But it's neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things, you soon develop muscle memory for each of your planes if you use them much, and instinctively spin the thumb wheel 'til you feel it take up, then add or delete the amount of set desired. I suppose if you have a very sloppy adjuster and you are having to change set very frequently (a rare occurrence in my experience), it could be mildly irritating and might provoke me into doing something about it, though I wouldn't take bets on it.

The other topic that can create endless & often high-temperature debate is how flat soles have to be. I think I'll not go there........

Cheers,

Thanks Ian - all very useful tips.

Coincidentally I have a bunch of other planes that I decided to try and leave with a small engineering shop to flatten the soles on about 5 old ones. I sent myself spare trying to flatten with belt sander paper on a granite block and when I looked at the Stanley No 7 gathering dust in the corner I thought "no way!"

When I went out to the shop (actually just a guy on his own but who seemed to know his stuff), he told me he is very wary about the results because he is concerned that with old tools, once you grind them just a fraction they might "snake out" and warp depending on a range of factors. Much as you say. He is going to see how he goes.

One reason I am trying to get a very fussy "flatness" on the sole of a No 7, and true sides, is firstly because it might be a good shooter but also it might be a very handy long, flat surface to have in the shop for checking flatness of various things and also flattening the sole of wooden planes. I have fixed up a couple for all steps other than flattening the very rough soles. It will be a very, very gentle process and certainly want to take the minimum off.

Sounds like you've got someone who knows what they're doing. There have been a few sad stories on this & other forums about the outcome of sole-grinding by un-careful operators. As your man says, proceeding with great caution is most advisable!

I certainly empathise with your reluctance to go the hand-lapping route on any large plane! I have little option when making planes; taking them out to a machine shop to have the soles done seems like ducking responsibility, so it's the "Armstrong" method or nowt. It's not so bad with small planes, though even those are more than enough of a workout for my ageing arm muscles. I'm currently finishing a 325mm long panel plane & the thought of the lapping soon to come has me dragging my feet & fussing over unnecessary details. I'm a master of avoidance tactics.

In my view, and I think there'd be general agreement on this, the longer the plane, the more important it is to get them close to perfectly straight, 'cos you'll be straightening things with them and a wonky sole won't help matters at all. I'll commit a bit of heresy by saying that a smoother actually benefits from a slightly (& I mean slightly) convex sole, it allows the plane to ride into & out of small dips, as when you are tidying up small areas on a table top, for e.g. Don't take that to extremes, though, or you'll have a plane that's only good for planing the insides of large cart wheels. Let's just say the immeasurably small convexity I get with lapping seems to improve rather than detract from, the performance of a smoother. A concave sole, oth, is the kiss of death, the slightest concavity of a sole will render the plane useless for anything other than crude work & very thick shavings, or planing the outsides of felloes ).

Hand-lapping tends to give you a very slightly convex sole because the soft grinding surface (linishing belts stretched over the tablesaw top in my case) gets mounded up very slightly in front of the object being pushed across it, and the swarf going under the sole adds a bit more wear here too. However, you can get a sole flat enough for practical purposes if you are careful & persistent, making sure the belt stays very tight & sweeping it clean after every 20-30 strokes. It's hard, boring work! My 'test' for a plane is if it can be set to take full-width, 1 thou shavings from end to end of a board flattened by any other of my 'good' planes. Once it passes that test, I lose all further interest in its sole......

Cheers,