Thread: Help with a Dodo (Disston 77)

Zac

That's a very good find. My memory is that it will date from the mid 1870s, but I am sure a further check on the Disstonian Institute will narrow the date from the years a No.77 was made and the medallion.

Could we have a pic of the saw and the medallion if you have time? Just re-read your post. They are coming .

It is a shame about the broken teeth as a lot of jointing is neccessary to restore an even tooth line. I am led to believe this is common with these no set saws as at some point an attempt has been made to set the teeth with the disastrous result.

Valuation, even with pix, will probably be difficult and will depend on condition. On the sharpening aspect, if you can sharpen at 20 degs I think you will be able to sharpen at 45 degs.

Let's see the saw first.

Regards
Paul

Hopefully these show enough detail. If you want some more, I'll do my best to show what you want. Ordinarily, I'll finish the blade to a nicer finish, which I still intend to do, but I was a bit spooked when I found out it was a rare saw.

Thanks,
Zac

Similiar story here
Disston No. 77 Backsaw - early 1900s by Daryl Weir

Thanks Pacman,

I think the big difference here is that he was fairly prepared for what it was, and knew what to do with it. That looks like some pretty nice filing he did there.

Thanks,
Zac

Zac

I think you have a very interesting saw there. Medallion places it 1888-1896. Earlier than Daryl Weir's saw. I was not aware of the two different tooth sizes. Does your saw have that? I can't see from the pix. Can you measure the saw plate for taper?

Regards
Paul

Zac

Something else I should add is that the saw does not apear to have any damage and is a good depth. I love those sunken medallions too.

Regards
Paul

Unfortunately I don't have a micrometer, so measuring the taper will be difficult.

The saw doesn't have the two different tooth sizes, however the saw has almost certainly been sharpened a bit in its life, so I assume that one of the previous owners filed them all into a regular pattern. I've checked the teeth, and they appear to be rip filed, so perhaps this was something limited to the crosscuts.

Cheers,
Zac.

If you're willing to pay the trip, I will gladly sharpen your saw for free.

Regards from Canada.
Normand

Hi Zac,

Great find. There was a Disston 77 sold recently on eBay, if I remember correctly it was priced at around $400US.
Sharpening shouldn't be a problem on your saw, just need to find somebody who knows what they're doing.

Cheers,
Rob

What a great find, when you do find someone to sharpen it, don't worry about a few broken teeth, they will grow back with subsequent sharpenings and won't affect the way it cuts. Chances are that someone in the past tried to set the teeth not knowing they were extra hard and not supposed to be set and broke a few.

If you are thinking of selling it, then I'd be wary of overcleaning it too much. Some prefer to see it as original as possible,

Ray

Good find, as the others have said.

I guess having a rare saw would make me a bit nervous about what to do with it too. If you were more interested in its collector value, you've already done more than the purists like, so maybe you should stop there & get it back on the market for 10 times what you paid for it?

I'd be far more curious about its user value, myself. I'd love to see if all the hoo-hah about the taper-ground blade and extreme fleam (which Disston clearly call 'bevel', interestingly) is really as good as they say. (Darryl Weir seems to think so.) Since it was produced for such a comparatively short time, in an era when hand saws were still king, you have to wonder. Perhaps there were just too many botchers and not enough mechaniks around at the time?

Interesting to me that Disston say in their instructions to use 45 deg of bevel (or fleam) but don't say what rake angle. I've read somewhere that they used up to 45 deg rake on some of their no-set saws, but can't remember where I saw that, & I could have mis-read it. I reckon you could go to 'extremes' like 45 deg rake on a crosscut. Unlike ripsaws, the sides of the teeth of a crosscut are active - they are 'knifing' the fibres, so the greater the fleam, the sharper the knife. Increasing the rake gives you a more shearing cut, so should also be beneficial in some woods.

As Paul said, sharpening it doesn't pose any extra difficulties compared with any other crosscut - easier perhaps, because you don't need to set it (& note they distinctly tell you to hold the file horizontal, so no slope). However, I suspect you'll eat up a couple of files re-forming the teeth and sharpening it, if it's that much harder than 'normal' for a Disston saw. Odd to me that Disston put 8tpi on a saw of that size, too, I'd be more inclined to use at leat 10, & probably 12, but again, it would be interesting to see how their tooth pattern worked before making any premature judgements.

Lucky you! I would love to have a 77 to play with, and satisfy some of my curiosities!

Cheers,

I'm afraid that I am a bit of a botcher sometimes. Here's another pic of the etch for everyone here.
14111942_10154030612546185_384311931_n (1).jpg
I've decided that since I'll keep it, I'm going ahead with the originally intended restoration process. It may affect it's value to a collector, but not to me. I'm sorry if the final product offends people's sensibilities, that's not my intention. I'll post some more photos when I'm done.

Zac

The cleaning or restoration of saws is a contentious issue. However, if you intend it to be a keeper (I would) and a user too, you really can do whatever you want.

I have large gaps in my material for Disston. See if you can find some Simonds in your travels as I can help a lot better there .

Here is some information on the 77s. Some you already know about:

From 1875

Disston No.77 from 1875.png

From 1914

Disston No.77 from 1914 catalogue.png

Notice the 1875 saw has no reference to the "botchers and mechanics" on the etch. Both saws appear to have the 12ppi teeth at the toe.

I doubt that your saw has been re-toothed. I think it came like that. Back in those times you were able to ask for special orders without any problems at all.

Regards
Paul

I have the Wenzloff rendition of the Disston 77 in large and medium sizes. The large has the 12/8 toothing and the blade tapers from 0.025" at the toothline, 0.024" 1 cm up from the teeth, 0.023" at 2 cm to 3 cm, 0.022" at 4 cm and 0.021" at the bottom of the back. The smaller saw 12/15 toothing and tapers from 0.025" at the teeth to 0.020" just below the back.

This is the large saw and the deep reach micrometer used for the measurements. Both saws perform as advertised in hard dry wood.

Wenzloff 77 large with thickness gauge.JPG