Thread: Help on old hand planes

some folks here collect tools so might be able to go into some finer details, but basically what you've got there is a rudimentary plough plane, used for grooving along the grain on the face or edge of the stock, used in joinery for all sorts, everything from cottage work, window, door construction etc to cabinet work, it would come with a set of cutters (blades) ranging in size, say from 1/8th to 5/8th, today you would use a router, spindle moulder or even a table saw to do the same job (they still work though if you put a sharp edge on the blade), you set the width on the fence using the wedges to hold it in place, on more elaborate plough planes of the time they would use wooden nuts and the bars would be threaded wood instead, they also might have a handle, yours is without, as is your jack plane (the rectangle plane about 14-15" long), something looks a little odd to me about that plane, maybe not an expensive one in its day (might not be that old either), the grain is a bit wide and the timber is knotty, the blade doesn't appear to be tapered either but i cant see for sure...never the less it will likely work well enough as a jack plane, for roughing down stock or if set well it can be used for finer work (if pic 7 is the bottom of that same plane, scratch being used for finer work, its strictly for roughing down stock!

the boat shape plane is for final smoothing of the wood suface, they often work very well, have nice thick tapered blades and a back iron , you can see yours is forged steel, you can see the stamp but i cant make out the names, today you would use an electric sander in place of this, you should give it a go, with those nice thick blades if they havnt been burnt on a grinder they can still be very good

pic 8 looks like a moulding plane used to create the tongue on floorboards (or sim situation) and the others are hollow and rounds which are moulding planes and used to create simple mouldings or as complicated a shape as your imagination will allow when used in conjunction with other moulding planes, obviously spindle moulders and routers do the same job those planes once used to




cheers
chippy

ps. the WWW is most likely a stamp the owner placed on them to keep sticky fingers from using them or to identify his from anyone elses

oh, i missed the other one sitting behind on the table, the one with the aparent horn shaped handle on the front, in australia we would call that a roughing plane or a german jack plane, does essentially the same sort of job as the english jack but since you have both you would set them up differently, the german jack for roughing and the english jack after that, then finish with the smoother (edit, as i mentioned above if pic 7 is the bottom of the english jack or fore plane it is just for roughing down)

Thanks Chippy, the forged blade on the jack plane has the mark W Marples stamp, it is a very thick heavy blade that one, haven't seen a plane blade like it!
Pic 7 is the bottom of a round bottom plane, about 40mm diameter i suppose, the blade is obviously also that shape, left hand side in the picture, rough i know but i haven't attempted to sharpen these or tidy them up, want to make sure i do the right thing first, and learn how to either "restore" them and keep a nice patina as well. I have rubbed them over with linseed oil once a year or so, thats all.

Originally Posted by ntjeep

Thanks Chippy, the forged blade on the jack plane has the mark W Marples stamp, it is a very thick heavy blade that one, haven't seen a plane blade like it!

oh yeah! the first time you show those blades people often go wide eyed at how thick they are, they work a dream too, i prefer to flat grind generally but especially on those blades, most planes of that era use blades similar to that, the plough plane cutters are even a bit thicker i think ..set the back iron as close as you can get it to the cutting edge (after honing it neat of course) set depth to a fine cut and there's not much you can't smooth with it!




cheers
chippy

Hi ntjeep & chippy.

I was wondering if that round-bottom jack would be called a spar-plane. Or at least potentially a boat-building tool.

When I think "spar-plane" I first think of a hollow-bottom version (the opposite) to that one - like for shaping a yard-arm or such

Marples were a major UK tool-maker ... and kinda still going today ... as a ghost within Record or Irwin possibly ...
I (completely unqualified) would estimate their tool quality as ordinary but excellent.
That is to say - I think back then your ordinary tools were pretty good tools (by today's standards).
William Marples and Sons - Hibernia Works - Sheffield, UK

Here's more info: Marples Trade Mark History
"The shamrock mark was used by Wm Marples when trading alone before 1860
(1820 - 1862), then by Wm Marples and Sons from 1862 up until the firm
ceased trading in its own right in the early 1960s. The company was then
bought up and split up between C J Hampton (Record) and Wridgeways, who
very shortly after were amalgamated as Record-Wridgeway and started to go
through some very rough times. The Marples name is still on a lot of stuff
made by Record Wridgeway, but I haven't seen the shamrock mark on any of
those tools."

OK ... and the best info is on WWFs
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/m...source-114498/

I suppose you already have a regime for sharpening chisels? and plane blades?

Cheers,
Paul

Some related stuff:

Woodworking Tools 1600-1900, by Peter C. Walsh
Woodworking Tools, 1600–1900, by Peter C. Welsh.
Adam Cherubini
18th-century Tools for Every Shop - Popular Woodworking Magazine

I was wondering if that round-bottom jack would be called a spar-plane. Or at least potentially a boat-building tool.

hey Paul, well anythings possible, its wrong way around for that though, but i would tend to lean toward it being for skirting's, architrave's, window and mouldings, balustrades, rails etc, particularly with the company its keeping

in the pic it just looked like a woody jack plane to me not having a reference for size (though i thought something was odd about it) but now that ntjeep says it to be perhaps 40mm wide its more like a moulding plane, for soft wood (ceder etc) i would wager atm, perhaps it will turn out to have a name but it alludes me at the moment..i tend not to focus on the names too much, more on what i can use them for..probably because i read sherlock homes when i was a kid and one thing i took from that was dont fill your brain with stuff that doesn't matter, that way it leaves more room for stuff that does



cheers
chippy

The large 'round' does look odd - someone has made a new body out of a non-traditional wood, but no idea what wood it is from your pics. Larger rounds like these were used by pattern-makers more than cabinet-makers, I believe, but they can certainly come in handy when you have to make up an odd bit of moulding. I have a couple of pairs of hollows & rounds that don't see a lot of use, but are the bees' knees when you do need them. (I don't own a spindle moulder, it's the one power tool that scares the daylights out of me, & very happy to leave them to professionals like yourself who know what they're doing, Chippy! ).

It's a pity these old tools turn up missing their parts (no wedge or blades for your plough) or partners (no groover to go with the tongueing plane), but you can have lots of fun looking for them. Lookout! - it can be the beginning of an obsession.

Cheers,

I agree that is is a molding plane, likely for skirtings or cornices. If it were a little rounder still, it might be a gutter plane. It could, nevertheless, make a great scrub plane.

Regards from Perth (currently in Manhattan, on the point of leaving for Ottawa)

Derek

Ian, yeah i thought to myself later on that it was probably made by someone that either couldn't get the tool he was wanting or couldn't afford the professional/store built version, that would work well for the backs of skirting's and architrave's where on site i would normally use a curved blade in a bailey number 4 or 5 like some people might use a scrub, just to relieve the backs

you know, i wouldn't be surprised if H&R's would make more of a come back (for people that enjoy using hand tools of course) ,here in Aus and maybe other places where labour charges are quite high, the prices of moulding are getting quite high....just a thought, i know i dont mind milling my own bits either by machine or by hand if it suits the situation to save a dollar...all depends on the individual i guess, how much time they have to spare or throw at a project



cheers
chippy

It Looks like a user made plane , either Ash or Elm, probably.
Rob.

Edit ,
sorry chippy , posting at the same time as you , this new set up does not let you know that someone has done another post before you hit the submit reply button , I think it did that before

I think your right about the H&R's comeback , specially after seeing the new ones for sale in the US, how's the price!

Most of the wooden bench/moulding planes you see in the wild have been out of their tool boxes for a long time and have suffered because of it . Nice clean sets of hollows and rounds do turn up occasionally, I scored an almost complete set at a Melbourne tool sale , it's missing one plane .
I have another set above my bench which is the workshop set, any one who needs one comes and grabs what they want, and their in a shocking state because of that. some people who dont give a sxxt because it's not their tool.
they still work though.

some good books on the subject that must have been mentioned here before are

The Village Carpenter by Walter Rose

The Tool Chest of Benjamin Seaton” by ?

Any one here compared the revised addition of the Seaton chest to the first addition? I would have to buy it if it was better

Rob

Originally Posted by auscab

It Looks like a user made plane , either Ash or Elm, probably.
Rob.

Edit ,
sorry chippy , posting at the same time as you , this new set up does not let you know that someone has done another post before you hit the submit reply button , I think it did that before

I think your right about the H&R's comeback , specially after seeing the new ones for sale in the US, how's the price!

no worries, same thing happened to me with derek posting just above me

i dont know the sets for sale in the US, curious, what are they worth? i still have my own old set, though, they still work fine so no need to buy more


cheers
chippy (currently in my office, on my way to the lounge room )

I think it's in the US. could be Canada ?

MS BICKFORD Hand Planes

One pair of Hollows and rounds $425

A half set of 18 $3750

Nice work and at $208 each it's actually cheap, I would not like to try and make one or 18 and try and make a profit at that price .
With a bit of searching they can turn up in a set from $25 to $35 each they would have to be a flash set of 18 to get $50 each for old ones. IMHO .

Rob

Originally Posted by ch!ppy

i dont know the sets for sale in the US, curious, what are they worth?

$750 from well-known Oz seller for an mixed half set is "ouch" ($40+ each!)... but not that unusual I think.

Watch out if they are modern made, or a matched old set!

More again of course for a full set.



This must be the "snap!" thread Auscab wrote too ... puts $40 into a different light ...

but you can get individual planes in sometimes beautiful condition from the US and UK ... £4-£14 ... a few from the same seller and the postage becomes pretty reasonable.

Cheers,
Paul