Thread: Help me with my handtool shopping list!

Can't comment on everything, but I'm a big fan of the HNT Gordon smoother, and the trying plane.

The 6" Colen is preferable - it is a purchase for life - don't regret getting one too small.

Originally Posted by Dion N

My research has me inclining toward HNT Gordon for the planes

This is a good choice and value for money.

Do not waste you money on a modern Stanley to much effort to get working, or a 45 degree pitch Mujingfang, and the 45º is to low for Australian woods another reason to avoid the Stanley.

Originally Posted by Dion N

Should I get a HNT Jack or Smoother (or Both?)

I would get a HNT Jack (for ruff and bulk work), a Trying plane (for leveling and jointing) and a Smoother. Each plane can be used in place of another however the finish of the blade and the plane size makes each have a different function. Remember a Jack of all is a master of none is an expression I am sure you would know.

Have you looked at the Veritas Bevel Up planes, again in Jack, Jointer and smoother sizes and if bought direct from Canada the whole set can be gotten for less then $700 AU.

Adria saws are good however for the money Wenzloff and Sons are better, by most accounts. I would go for the Large Tenon Saws 16" and the Dovetail saw

Hope this Helps.

Dion

Another alternative is to use your money to buy old hand tools and restore them. That was the way I decided to go - partly because I started out that way bringing my Dad's tools back into good order, partly because it was cheaper, partly because I learned a lot a fun additional skills (like saw sharpening) and partly because it appealed to the historian and recycler in me (I like feeling that I have brought a toool that someone in another age used back to life).

That is not to say anything against the modern hand tools from specialist toolmakers like Colen Clenton and HNT Gordon, etc, but simply to say that there is another way to get a set of the best.

However, whatever you do (and you can combine the two - as you will if you keep your Record 07), don't forget to show us pictures and tell us your experiences.

Cheers

Jeremy

Dion

FWIW, here's my contribution:

Planes: I've got quite a few, including Terry Gordon's original smoother and his new A55 smoother. They are both superbly well-designed and made and they do a magnificent job on our tough Aussie timbers. I would thoroughly recommend both of them. The original is adjusted in the traditional way, with a hammer or mallet. It's a useful skill to learn and it's not too hard (but, since you already own a Mujingfang, you probably know how).

Saws: Amongst my growing collection, I have an Adria backsaw, cut for rip. It's a very good tool. Looks great, works great - impossible to fault. I have an ambition to own one of Mike Wenzloff's saws.

Squares: On the weekend at the Perth Wood Show, I bought one of Colen Clenton's 6" squares (Tasmanian Blackwood). It's truly superb - one of the best tools I've ever seen.

(Usual disclaimer: I have no connection with any of the companies mentioned - except as a happy customer).

Col

Incidentally, I agree with Jeremy about old tools. Not only can you have a lot of fun restoring them but you'll also learn a lot and you get that indefinable pleasure from using a tool that has some heritage - even when you don't know what that heritage is - just that it's been around a while and it's got its own history.

Thanks for the info thus far...

I do like the idea of restoring old tools. I have a few old saws which I aim to restore. Dad gave me his Diston Panel Ripsaw and my Grandfather has a diston Tenon saw which I hope to obtain one day. I have an old Tyzack dovetail saw which is my "saw-shapening 'learner." Dad has a Stanley No 3, which I made a new rose wood handle for - not perfect, but OK for a first go. Perhaps one day it would make a nice beginners plane for teaching my daughter. Unfortunately the collectibility of old tools makes it harder to find an old Stanley at a reasonable price (compared to a HNT which will work nicely straight out of the box).

The Wenzloff saws look very nice, but there is a 21 week wait, which is a long time seeing as I have just come back to the shed after several months away due to work commitments.

Dion,

as a relative (to the experts here!) woodworking novice, can I add a suggestion regarding planes? I love the look of the HNT Gordon planes, and I'm sure they are excellent, but I've decided to have a go (probably more like 3 or 4 go's) at making my own. I've picked up a few nice chunks of wood, and thought I'd buy some decent blades for them if I can make them work.

My initial forays into planes have been old ones that I've restored (and I've got a lot more to restore!), and I find that process immensely satisfying and you end up with a very usable plane, but probably not a plane in the same league as the HNT Gordon planes. I've picked up some at garage sales, and also some on eBay - although the prices on eBay can get a bit scary. I tend to bid only for what I really want, and then only what I'm prepared to pay, and if I get outbid so be it.

I think if I had $1000 to spend I'd buy a bandsaw!

Dion,
I too have been looking at getting some nice tools to work with. After a bit of research I ended up buying the tools from the 3-4 tool makers you have looked at.
Terry Gordon (HNT Planes), Colen Clenton, Chris Vesper (Chris Vesper Tools), Eddie (Adria Saws).
All of them make world class tools. All of them are sold through HNT Gordon. I can't say just how happy I am with the tools from these guys. Honestly, spend the money, save some more and spend again. They make wonderful, useful and beautiful tools.
All of these tools are a pleasure to use. Chris Vesper has some great sliding bevels to consider as well. Both Colen and Chris make simply stunning Marking Guages.
But watch out. Once you have some of these tools you will find it hard to go back to lesser quality instruments.
Don't ask me how I know this, you will just have to trust me.
So...just do it. Life is too short.
All the best

Dion

I have a couple of handtools myself. My recommendations would be:

1. LV LA Jack - this is a most versatile plane. Use it as a shooting plane on end grain with a low angle blade, or as a panel plane to smooth large areas, or as a shortish jointer. I love the HNT Trying plane but it is more of a dedicated plane.

Get a Stanley #7 for a jointer at this stage.

2. LV LA Block Plane or LN LA 60 1/2 Block Plane - they are different sizes so try them in your hand. Again, I love HNT Gordon planes, but I would not recommend the block plane as you really want something with a low cutting angle and bevel up (so you can add a second blade with a different cutting angle). Here's a thought, get the LV and add the optional tote. Now you have a #3 sized smoother.

3. For a smoother, consider either the HNT Gordon (original or A55)or LV BU Smoother (for its price the best in the world). You can swap the blades between the LV BUS and LAJ so a low angle and a high angle would get you by.

In all the above, my choice is for the LV if you want performance and the HNT Gordon if you are prepared to accept slightly lower performance but want emotion thrown in. It is such a personal thing.

4. You cannot go wrong with the Colen Clenton 6" square. It will last a life time. I have just bought one in ebony. The 4" is great for marking out small joints, such as tenons and dovetails, but you will get more use out of 6". I should note that I also have the 4" Crown adjustable square (that looks identical to the CC), and it excellent value-for-money (MUCH cheaper).

5. Marking knife? At this stage of spending I would say make your own. See my website for a tutorial.

6. Backsaws? Mike Wenzloff makes The Best. No question. LN and Adria comes in second. However, the performance in a backsaw lies with the sharpening and set of the teeth. The rest is aesthetic (but we do want aesthetic!). My recommendation is (again with budget in mind, and your statement that you want to buy the best) to wait until you can do this. In the meantime just get a decent vintage saw and sharpen and set it yourself. Doing a rip is a piece of cake.

7. See if you can get a slightly longer Mujingfang (they may an 11" version) and use this as a jack plane (use a moderately cambered blade). Perhaps you can even get away with your current Mujingfang (try it) but it is a little short for ideal.

8. By now I'd say that you are over your budget. If I were to economise, it would be to get a vintage 6" Starrett double square over the CC (try eBay USA) and a vintage backsaw for now.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek

Thank you for your advice. I was rather hoping you might post here.

I have been looking at the LV options you mentioned. If I were to get the LV BUS and the LAJ, I would end up with 25 and 38 Degree blades and would just need to get a 50 degree blade, since they are all interchangeable, right?

I like your idea re the LV LA block plane.

I suppose that if I'm going down the BU route I ought to get a Veritas MKII honing guide?

Originally Posted by Dion N

I suppose that if I'm going down the BU route I ought to get a Veritas MKII honing guide?

Unlike Derek, I'm no expert, but the Veritas MKII honing guide was the best investment I've made thus far in my woodworking hobby.

Your top notch planes are only going to plane well if they're sharp!

Derek - How does Pax compare with LN and Adria?

BTW - Dion, what issue of AWR is the saw comparison review you're referring to?

Bevel up planes really require that the honing guide you use is able to set up specific bevel angles since these are what determines the cutting angle (unlike bevel down planes, where the bevel angle does not affect the cutting angle). The LV honing guide Mk II is the best of this kind.

I do all my planing on Aussie woods with a low angle (25 degree bevel) and a high angle (50 degree bevel). I do not see a need for inbetween. As it is, if so needed, I have other planes (e.g. Stanley). If you want to alter the 38 degree blade to a 50 degree blade, just alter the angle of the microbevel. It is that simple.

I have not used a Pax backsaw. I do, however, have a Crown gent saw, which I think is essentially the same. The set was uneven when I first got it, but this took a couple of minutes to rectify (using a fine diamond plate). Now it cuts very well indeed. There are better saws, but if this was all one had, you'd be very happy.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by jisk

Unlike Derek, I'm no expert, but the Veritas MKII honing guide was the best investment I've made thus far in my woodworking hobby.

Your top notch planes are only going to plane well if they're sharp!

Derek - How does Pax compare with LN and Adria?

BTW - Dion, what issue of AWR is the saw comparison review you're referring to?

Jisk AWR 46 has a reveiw of dovetail saws by Robert Howard - 5 Western and 5 Japanese. The 5 western saws were 1 each of LN, Adria and Pax backsaws and 1 each of LN and Pax gents saws. I think Adria and LN outscored Pax on the backsaw, although Adria was better value for money I think.

Derek - A MKII honing guide is now on my list

Dion

I largely second Derek with the following differences:

my own preference is the LN low angle jack — I can hold it one handed and was using it last weekend as a long block plane.

I love my LN#60½ adjustable mouth block but I also wouldn't be without the LN Iron #102 (IMO at AUD$119 the price / Zen ratio is just right with this plane)

Smoother Well provided you have the LV MkII honing guide, I think it's got to be the LV bevel up smoother

Definitely get two blades for any bevel-up jack or smoother you buy


Square: I really like the LV Double square


but this along with a lot of other LV useful gadgets (like the saddle square, mitre square, dovetail square) might be in the range for birthdays / Father's Day / Christmas and so outside the scope for the current shopping spree


If you want to spread the $ furher but aren't much into fettling old metal planes, Jim Davey in Nowra NSW [email protected] is a source for fettled vintage Stanleys


of course these are all dark side recommendations

do you also feel the need for an electron burner or two??

Originally Posted by derekcohen

I have a couple of handtools myself.

Am I allowed to laugh??

Dion,
Have you exceeded your Budget as yet?
My two bits worth, for such value as you ascribe:
I do not see a reference to necessary chisels....allow at least $400. And, as a fully fledged Dark sider, allowing for tang chisels, double that Budget!I love my range of chisels and the freedom to have sharpened them myself.I use the Veritas Mk II.
I have embraced Jeremy's idea of vintage saws and endeavouring to sharpen your own, but add a cost for the files, especially for the short extra fine for dovetail saws. A canvas saw bag becomes something special and treasured, akin to your personally developed chisel rolls. My wife helped me there, invoking the aid of our local bootmaker who extended his skills to some chisel rolls.
I have no complaints with my Stanley No 7 jointer or the HNH smoother. I was pleased to get some satisfaction from restoration of my father's Stanley 4 1/2 and an uncle's Stanley 4. With each, I felt I was tapping into a prior element of skill that I could embrace, or could be embraced by. Karma? Who can say.
All I can say, with certainty, is that my journey is for much more than $1,ooo but no proper monetary value can ever be placed on it.....and I suspect SWMBO is very aware of how much I have spent and will say a monetary value CAN be placed on it and I am wrong, but would never do so, while we are happily married and together.....BUT after that!!!!