Thread: Help! How do identify planes + establish what they are worth?

First of all my sympathies for the loss of your father.
If he collected planes he must have been a discerning and likeable man.
The value of old tools is a vexed question and has been addressed by many before this.
If you are unwilling to explore ebay, then perhaps the words of a noted Australian tool dealer might assist.
Hans Brunner has been selling for a long time and has a respected reputation.
He has this to say:

Values: Nobody ever listens, you give a seller two figures for value and he/she will only hear the higher one. It's human nature. We can't handle choice. But I have to give you something or the emails will never stop. So I decided to give you what I think is a middle of the range value for Stanley planes in good or better condition, sold in Australia in Australian dollars - because whatever I give you, you'll probably think it's too low when you're selling or too high when you're buying. That's human nature, too! Please remember that the variances can be huge. If a plane hardly ever shows up, somebody is more likely to go crazy and raid the kid's trust fund to get hold of it. On the other hand, one of the most common tools like a Stanley number 4 can fetch many times its normal value at any tool sale and it all comes down to

Condition, condition, condition.

And that's where the trouble starts. Every tool schlepper on the internet is an expert these days. They've just spent two hundred bucks on an outdated, pre-eBay Walter Stanley price guide so they have to show off their newly acquired knowledge with the fitting jargon. Fair enough, we don't have to listen. But the real problem is this: How do they know their plane is in good condition if they have only ever had one? They just bought it in a boxed lot at an estate sale, looked up the number and decided this plane was complete, perfect, better than anything ever sold and extremely rare too! How do they know? Unless there is a dormant Stanley gene in every man I have to conclude that it all comes down to comparison and learning from mistakes. It's the only thing I know for certain: the next mistake is just around the corner and if I avoid that one I'll walk right into the next. I hope these pages can guide you through some of the pitfalls of tool collecting and avoid some of the costly mistakes along the way.

this is a work in progress......

time permitted I'll add more details, more pictures and more of everything

Whilst I hate the way type studies are abused, I'm the first to acknowledge that they provide invaluable information for every serious collector. They represent the sum of knowledge accumulated by some of the sharpest tools in the shed like Sellens, Smith, Walter, Leach or the pioneers of tool auctions like Brown, Eaton, Blanchard, Stanley, Donnelly, Murland as well as the combined efforts of many thousands of past and present members from tool clubs the world over.

For Stanley by numbers I will use some of the fundamentals from Alvin Sellens "The Stanley Plane", Roger Smith "Patented Transitional & Metallic Planes in America" and John Walter "Antique & Collectible Stanley Tools" Unfortunately, all of them are out of print at this time but there is always hope that John Walter will finally squeeze a new edition through a maze of what I understand are legal settlement obstacles. His guide is often referred to as the Stanley bible. When Walter launched his last edition in Harrisburg in 1996 I should have bought 100 copies instead of one! A Stanley # 1 costs about the same today as it did back in 1996. John Walter's book on the other hand is now worth many times its original cover price. We're always smarter in hindsight, so let's hope these pages will mature over time, too. I always welcome your comments, even the ones that tell me which screw goes in what slot.

Terms used: I use "offered" for the approximate years of manufacture. Unless somebody unearths the complete Stanley shop floor production reports for the last 150 years we simply can't be sure. We can, however, check the Stanley tool catalogues, many of which are available in reprints. Unless Stanley sat on a lot of excess stock it's fair to assume that the manufacturing time ran parallel with the catalogue listing time. I use English terms for some plane parts i.e. a handle is not a tote down under. If in doubt I let the "Dictionary of Woodworking Tools" by R.A. Salaman be the higher authority.

Value: Based on current or past Australian transactions for a plane in good or better condition. Prices for some of the more common USA made planes are substantially higher in Australia. eBay has drastically narrowed the margin but the very high postage costs will make sure that there will always be a gap. On the other hand, some rare USA made planes used to be a lot more common and therefore cheaper down under.( i.e. 10 1/4, 54, 72 etc.) This has changed too, but not in favour of the buyers. eBay has managed to make them available world-wide and prices have adjusted accordingly. Overall, prices are now lower than they were 10 years ago with the top end of the market suffering most. Pre-internet, rare tools like a Stanley 340, 196, 444, 164 etc. hardly ever showed up and when they did the demand pushed prices up. These days if one of them shows up on eBay you can be sure that the next one is just around the corner - especially if the first listing produced a good result. And not surprising, prices go down with every new listing. However, this is a new medium dealing with an old commodity in finite numbers. Once they are all flushed out of those sheds, basements and attics there won't be any more. Grab them while you can.

His website with pricing on Stanley Planes is:
http://www.hansbrunnertools.gil.com....tanley%201.htm

Now with 50 planes you have the task ahead of you, so it might be of assistance if some of the members who live near you on the Central Coast of NSW could give some advice.
I doubt that there is a quick and easy way to sell them that will realise their value as a job lot. Selling them separately is the only way to do that.
As for selling them, if you want to do that on this forum then you will need to post pictures and at least some description of condition.
You could take pictures of groups of planes and price each one individually - this would save some time.

Good luck with the research - it is going to take some time even with advice and a lot longer without advice.
Kind regards
SG

I think Toms advice is very good.

I'd suggest posting photos on these forums.. there are many here who have a good handle on what tools are worth and you may be surprised what is valuable and what is not.
Depending on what you have I might also suggest that it may be a good idea to hang on to a few things.. good antique tools are as good an investment as anything these days and once they are removed from the clutter of a mans collection can be very pretty objects to have around.

I think the htpaa in Vic will sell planes at their tool shows on the behalf of third parties such as yourself the Sydney version is tttg who may be able to offer a similar service.

As mentioned Hans Brunners site is a good starting point to roughly valuing at least the Stanley portion of the collection.

Good luck.. don't take any offers until you have are a little better armed to get a fair deal.

My sympathies

Originally Posted by Scribbly Gum

As for selling them, if you want to do that on this forum then you will need to post pictures and at least some description of condition.
You could take pictures of groups of planes and price each one individually - this would save some time.

Good luck with the research - it is going to take some time even with advice and a lot longer without advice.
Kind regards
SG

Hello Here's Hoping,

First of all, let me offer my condolences on the passing of your father.

If you need assistance with how to get around the forum or to upload Images please send me a Private Message and I'll do what I can to help you out.

DJ
Administrator
Woodworking Australia's
WOODWORK FORUMS

Originally Posted by Here's Hoping

snip...
Amongst the collection (of multiples of everything a man could wish for!) are approx 50 planes of all different sizes. They are mainly older UK Stanleys, but there are also newer Stanleys, some Record and some Aust. Pope, all in very good condition I believe. My questions are:
1) Is there an easy way to tell which is a Bench, block, rabbet, router or whatever?
2) Do corrugations underneath have any significance?
3) With the older wooden block planes I can't see any markings so how do I establish their make or origin?
4) What is the best way to find out their approx market value? (and the Titan chisels, spokeshaves, old wooden-handled screwdrivers, saws, mystery items, etc, etc)

And to all of you with daughters, a tool inventory or some sort of labelling system would be a blessing to them if the time ever comes that they need to sort out your own collections, regardless how far in the future that might be!

First off my condolences on the death of your father

second, welcome

third, your questions
1) Is there an easy way to tell which is a Bench, block, rabbet, router or whatever?
the easiest way to identify a "standard" bench, block, rabbet, router is probably to look here http://www.lie-nielsen.com.au/
whilst these pictures are of current production tools, they are faithful to the original Stanley/Record planes in terms of shape and size – although Pope planes are the same shape as the Stanley/Record versions, someone else will need to chime in re sizes of Pope planes compared to Stanley/Record variants

2) Do corrugations underneath have any significance?
they do and typically corrugated planes are worth more than uncorrigated ones

3) With the older wooden block planes I can't see any markings so how do I establish their make or origin?
The Traditional Tools Group Inc http://www.tttg.org.au/ may be able to help. Contact them through their web site. I'm sure there are members on the Central Coast.

4) What is the best way to find out their approx market value? (and the Titan chisels, spokeshaves, old wooden-handled screwdrivers, saws, mystery items, etc, etc)
Sorry I can't help much with this one.
Value is related to where and how quickly you want to sell the tools and their relative rareity.
Based on the number of tools which did not sell at last year's Sydney Wood Working show, I surmise that most of the second hand tools there were over priced.
On the other hand I understand that reasonably brisk business occurs at the North Rocks Sunday morning markets (I've never been so don't know whether tools feature every week or only once a month)
Also one of the Central Coast markets has an extensive tool section – again I've never been so don't know the location or dates. However, I have seen an example of the tools exchanged there. More for the other Forumites, it was an English infill panel plane in it;s original box which sold for ~$1200.

If you wish I can find out more details about these markets



ian

G’day HH,
My condolences to yourself and your family.
In the very short time I have been viewing and posting on this forum I feel I can say you have come to the right to get help and advice. I haven’t met any of the members in person but I don’t think there would be a better group of enthusiasts that could offer more useful advice.
I’m also glad to think your father’s tools may even get a worthy chance of another useful life.
That’s what I love about proper hand tools, they last a lifetime.:)

Cheers
Michael.

Thank you all so much for your input!

Scribbly - Dad would have totally agreed with 'discerning and likeable' comment : ) .......and thanks for all the Hans Brunner info. I have now also found the tool exchange site in Qld.

Luban - I think posting photos might be very helpful so will definitely follow that suggestion up, and will contact the tttg to see what they offer. I am trying to arm myself, but it's a bit of a crash course!

DJ - Thanks for the offer. I will have a go myself uploading the photos when I have taken them, but will definitely be in touch if I have any problems.

Ian - Thank you for your answers, and any further info on the Nth Rocks or Central Coast tool markets would be great.

Michael - Yes, I am glad I found this site. And I know Dad would also much prefer his tools going to the appreciative hands of fellow enthusiasts. I just now wish I had paid more attention to him when he waxed lyrical over his new found 'treasures' so I knew more about them.........after I sort out the planes there are about 100 chisels, over 20 saws, spokeshaves, hammers, axes, squares, rules, drills......it's doing my head in!! : ) But I'll get there.

Originally Posted by Here's Hoping

Ian - Thank you for your answers, and any further info on the Nth Rocks or Central Coast tool markets would be great.

Here's Hoping

North Rocks Market
every Sunday from 7am to 1pm — I'm told vendors get there arround 6:00AM
Location: Royal Institute for Deaf & Blind Children, North Rocks Road, North Rocks
Rotary Club of Carlingford,
the markets are run by the Rotary Club of Carlingford, entry is by donation to Rotary charities


so far I have no details for markets on teh Central Coast, but Googling suggests that Davidson RSL runs a monthly market


Prices
don't get your hopes up
my understandng is that tools sold at these markets go for prices that are 25% of what you would think of as "fair" based on what you see on some web sites.


If you intend to dispose of your father's tools and truely want them to go to people who will appreciate them, I suggest you contact The Traditional Tools Group



ian
disclaimer — I'm a member of TTTG

As you go through this difficult process, don't discount the idea of selecting a few tools to keep in the family.

My father died when I was 24, about 20 years before I expressed any interest in woodworking. The tools passed on to me from his estate gathered dust for those 20 years, but now I'm glad I have this connection, and remember him whenever I use them. No great collectable Stanley planes, just a few cheap chisels and a handsaw, but if I was forced to sell my tools to buy food, these would be the last ones I'd part with.

Please accept my sympathies on the recent passing of your father.

There is a multitude of web-sites that do go to great lengths to identify handtools and you can get snowed under with these.To sort through these is quite a task and perhaps not one that gives you some comfort.

One I do like is this one http://www.handplane.com/

The good advice offered above is that contacting the relevent tool societies can immediately put you in some perspective on identifying and pricing accordingly the items that will not only give you a fair price but will also ease your mind.

Cheers

HH,

Condolences on the loss.

Further to Ian's comments, Hans Brunner may be able to sell them on consignment if they're of value.

Cheers,

eddie

C