Thread: Help me spend my hard earned...on good tools

Hi Ozhunter,

I think the reason you haven't had any help yet is that you've given a bunch of tool junkies an overload of options. Each one of the categories of tool is a total can of worms

If you'd said, 'which back saw should I buy first?' you'd get a 100 responses. 'Which tools in general?' and we locked up.

Everyone will have their own ideas about 'the best and setting aside vintage tools for the moment, I'll kick off with a few brands...

Chisels: Bench and carving- I have Pfeil and can't recommend them highly enough but others will say, Veritas, Lie Nielsen, Harold and Saxon... the ellipses could run on and on.

Handsaws: thomas flinn/garlick

Rasps: Liogier, Auriou, Milani, Grobet/Dick

It's a start

One of the best things for the wood working shows is that you can see a lot of tools. Which oddly enough is also one of the worst things, you see a lot of tools.

I think you do need to do your research before hand. Now when I mean research I am talking about what you currently have and what you currently make. Then look at why you dislike the tool and if there is something that can replace it or a different technique.

Personally I have a list of items that I would like to see and grab hold of and not necessary brand new but maybe second hand. The main thing from my perspective is to be patient.

Oz, most advice on which brands to buy will be tainted by personal preferences, because hand tools are very personal things. My suggestions are of a more general nature. I wouldn't rush out & buy too many at once, I would concentrate on one lot at a time. You already have a set of (unsatisfactory) tools, so you should have a pretty good idea of what tools, in what sizes, you need/want. So it boils down to choosing between the brands, as you've indicated.

Don't concentrate too much on the metal alone. When you get into the 'premium' brands, I think the 'law of diminishing returns' applies - you pay a LOT more money for a small increment in edge-holding ability. How big a chore is sharpening for you, anyway? Any decent chisel should give you a fair amount of work, with a few touch-ups betweem major re-sharpenings, unless you are working with particularly nasty stuff. Comparing my old Titans with my L-Ns, there is a big difference in hardness of the metal, yet the Titans do a remarkably good job, and are easy to touch up on the go.

So my 2c of advice would be to go for 'better' brands, by all means, but pay equal attention to qualities like the handle shapes & sizes, & the way the tool feels in your hands. IMO, a tool that feels right in the hands is so much easier to do good work with than one you have to struggle with, even if its edge-holding qualities aren't quite as good. Chisels, in particular, come in a wide range of shapes & sizes - some like 'em hefty, others small, so there is no 'one size fits all'. I would strongly advocate going to the show, and anywhere else you can see & hold (& preferably, use!) a range of tools to see which ones suit you best.......

Cheers,

Well said Ian!

For Chisels, I would go with LN. For carving chisels, I would only buy pfeil.

For a rasp, check out the Shinto Saw Rasp:


http://www.japanesetools.com.au/collections/frontpage/products/shinto-saw-rasp


I originally purchased the rasp from Carbatec Perth but I don't see it on the Carbatec web site (may be I 'm looking in the wrong spot). The rasp doen't rust or clog and is designed for fast removal of waste - a bargain at $28.00.

Thankyou for the feedback.

You can rest assured I won't be buying anything that I;m nnot going to be happy with from a fit point of view, I have the delicated hands of a gorilla, so anything with smaller handles etc. doesn't work.

I have no intention to get everything I have enquired about in one go. I'll take your comments into consideration and see what pans out.

Thankyou for the information.

Originally Posted by ozhunter

....... I have the delicated hands of a gorilla, so anything with smaller handles etc. doesn't work.

Then you wont like Lie-Nielsen's chisel handles, will you!?

I think they illustrate what I was saying very well - some folks like them (I do) & others hate them. In fact, they are easy to change if you have a lathe, but many buyers feel if you're paying a lot of $$s for a tool, you shouldn't have to spend your time altering it.

Handles are such a personal preference, it's hard to find any that really suit to a 'T'. However, I don't reject a tool on the basis of a 'bad' handle alone. Judging by the modifications one sees on old tools, there's a long tradition of altering them to suit the user. I don't like the woodwork on very many of the new tools available, and have modified or replaced the handles on most of the tools bought new over the last 20 years or more. My better half thinks I'm nuts (probably for many more reasons than this! ) & likes to tell the story about the nice new Veritas BU plane she bought me for Christmas a few years back (some heavy hints were required, as to which model, etc.). I took it off to the shed at the first opportunity & spent a couple of happy hours giving it a new tote & knob - I couldn't have lived with that ugly, uncomfortable stick that it came with!

Happy hunting....

G'Day Ozhunter,
If can encourage you with the option which a couple others have suggested;
come down to the Working with wood & timber show in a fortnight.
You should be able to view & feel a whole range of tools in one place;
plus if you like something it may be on show special & get a bargain.
Cheers, crowie

That's the plan crowie.

Cheers

Originally Posted by ozhunter

Thankyou for the feedback.

You can rest assured I won't be buying anything that I;m nnot going to be happy with from a fit point of view, I have the delicated hands of a gorilla, so anything with smaller handles etc. doesn't work.

I have no intention to get everything I have enquired about in one go. I'll take your comments into consideration and see what pans out.

Thankyou for the information.

Hi -

There are lots of tools where modifying the handles is straightforward, and there are lots of resources (plans, techniques) that will help you do it.

If you plan to use good tools for decades, it's well worth your time to customise them to fit your hands.

It's a truism that any tool design best fits the hand of the designer.....

Cheers -

Rob

some sage and safe advice above, i wouldnt ignore it

but no one puts their neck out, for fear of whatever and just sensible, or fence sitting

just my opinion, at this moment but if i had to say....

then i go with (if speaking new, lots of good old chisels available obviously but you might have a long wait and a very long road to get the ideal neat set or chisels that havnt had the temper drawn out or are a tad too short, new is just as good as the old or better in many ways)

chisels: robert sorby for DT , i'd have to check but a particular model they have is good which is hardend around 59-60. possibly pfeil or narax or some of the other euro brands are good too but the RS i know are very thin, better than LN and such which are on the thick side i reckon, not great DT chisels but ok all round chisels (shape that is the A1 steel is crap, their O1 would be better i am sure). RS , narax and many euro brands are O1 steel which i like too, a number of other things are good with that model too...the boutique brands which make very pretty and very nice looking chisels or handles may be fine and nice to hold or more particularly to look at, but they use A1 steel, it just doesnt hold the same edge as ordinary steel, it lasts longer, but not as sharp, forget it i say. Barr chisels from the US are hand forged are nice as well and quite hard o1 steel, more than 60 from memory, make for a good general purpose bench chisel imo if you want something that can also be struck a bit. long paring chisels are hard to find good ones new nowadays, so far RS are about the best i have used but you have to do some work on them to make them as good as they can be imo, there must be other brands but strangely i haven't come across them as yet, maybe others have.

mortise chisels i'd go with Ray isles or narax or RS, RS i'd re-harden but the handles are ok, narax i dont like the handles much but are cheap enough to re-handle, both are good for sash type mortise chisels, ray iles are good heavy duty mortise chisels and dont need any altering save honing and lapping, as all things need.

saws; hand saw and rip you really cant go past vintage, disston is common and easy to get, some of the other vintage saws brands are as good or better but disston are easy to get if you need a short path, pre war is best but post war is good too but if not happy with handles then make new ones.

back saws; well vintage (at least pre-war) is still nice, many brands, the handles are often very nice (just melt into your hand), but, its possible unless you have the chance to handle them first you get duds, blades bent, too thick, not the TPI you really want or a number of other things, for those reasons and more i think a new one is worth it for many ppl instead of chasing up an old saw. brands, well there are heaps of them, each with their own virtues

planes: so many planes types one brand doesn't (and couldn't) cover it but for general bench planes i'd go with clifton above LN (only just), LV doesnt factor into it. LN have a number of points in their favour, being available from a local distributor not least among them but once any small problems are sorted with clifton you have it for life and the blade and cap iron put it in front for me, my favourite plane would be hot rod between the two based on the clifton

rasps will be interesting, aurio (spelling) have always been good and i have bought some Logier off Brett recently so i'll see how they go, the'd want to be good as i've been getting along for years with whatever brand from the hardware store for yonks and some from the chinese hardware that cost just $1, obviously i'm not a heavy user of rasps but i do use them so these german (might be french) rasps will have to be 10 to 50X better for the price haha, we shall see

cheers
chippy






for any spelling errors please notify the internet spelling authorities WW and some others . for pedantic criticism, well, have fun

Originally Posted by Rob Lee

......It's a truism that any tool design best fits the hand of the designer.....

So obvious, but so often not appreciated. I thought I'd made the world's first perfect saw handle until a couple of other people tried it......

Cheers,