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  1. #1
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    Default HELP!! Veritas Sharpening Jig - with new narrow blade honing guide

    HELP!! I am having problems when I use My veritas honing guide.

    Until recently I went back to sharpening chisels and blades by hand as my jig was continually giving off a slightly crooked angle. This was frustrating and was about to sell it when I purchased the new Narrow Blade honing guide as I saw this could be a fix.

    The guide is brilliant as it clamps the chisel/blade from the side (Not top and bottom under pressure). Great for my shoulder plane blades and chisels up to 1.5 inch.

    Before I get all the responses about, pressure on one side, flat stones, squareness of guide, brass roller being worn down etc I have checked all this. I use the trend diamond stone as a start, and that gives me a true idea how it will sharpen, before I use the higher grit waterstones and strop.


    When I use a square to check if my edge is perpendicular to the chisel sides it shows that the newly sharpened chisel is now out of square. All chisels show up the exact same way and end up out of square on the same side.

    Any suggestions would help, as I have now invested a fair amount in this, especially with the new narrow guide.

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  3. #2
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    So the problem you wish to address is the slightly skewed sharpening angle, correct?

    I had a similar problem. With me it was the result of being too casual when clamping and getting it out of whack to start, uneven thumb screw pressure, and also just expecting it to right itself. I fixed the problem by being more careful, taking my time when clamping, and also I deliberately honed/ground off that skewed side so that it was even again. Since doing those things I'm in business.

    If you've tried all that stuff with no luck... Maybe ts time to contact Mr. Veritas?

    I sincerely doubt that helps at all. Sorry :/

    Cheers,
    Luke

  4. #3
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    Thx Luke

    I too thought the original mk2 clamping technique could cause the issue as the blade/chisel might move due to uneven pressure on the screws. The new narrow guide fixes that issue, with clamping on the side with even pressure, reducing the sideways movement and skewing.

    I might need to look at a replacement roller and see if that fixes the issue. Having said that the roller looks fine and even.

    hmmmm

  5. #4
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    I went out to the garage to have a look.
    Using a chisel with a 25 degree hollow grind I used a known square (I am assuming your square is known to be square) to check edge and the side that goes against the registration jig. All good and square.
    placed the chisel in the jig, slid the registration jig over and held it with left thumb whilst tightening the Narrow head blade clamp.

    All good and seated well. A few rubs produced a bevel that was skewed. The instructions touch on this. I re measured with the known square and the front edge and side I measured before remained square to each other. How much material are you taking off?


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  6. #5
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    Thats the point

    I was wanting to start fresh on a few older chisels, redo at 25, currently approx 27 (no micro bevel)

    I really wanted to see how the new jig would correct the issue, but like you have tried, it creates a skew.

    My problem is when re-setting the entire angle, the edge really skews away, leaving me with a small visually diagonal chisel. All my plane blades are done by hand now, but my shoulder planes, router planes blades & chisels are smaller and prefer to use the jig.

    I have sent an email to Lee Valley, to see whether they could send me a new brass roller. Not sure if they will or whether that would fix the issue. My Japanese chisels I need to take care when setting them up, as the edges are not always straight, few ridges and peaks from the blacksmith's hammering

  7. #6
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    I'd say it's good to go back to sharpening freehand. I've not found anything at this point where sharpening in a jig is more convenient or accurate than freehand (so long as a freehander has the wits to look at the iron situation before removing it from the plane, etc).

    Narrow blades require so little abrasion that they are not worth the time to put in a jig.

    The only exception I'd say to that would be someone who has failing eyesight and will need the jig to "see square" for them.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pac man View Post
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    Sorriite, I'm not watching this thread.
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  9. #8
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    If you're getting the skew effect using both the old clamp and the new side clamp, then that suggests to me that there could be a problem with the bottom portion of the jig. I recall someone, somewhere, writing that their roller had a problem whereby when they adjusted the roller (from say 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock) one end of the cam would turn more than the other end (something was loose), resulting in skewed honing. I think Veritas supplied a new part to put it right.
    If, on the other hand, it's only occurring with one chisel, maybe the top of the chisel (where it registers with the old clamp) isn't parallel with the face? Then again the new side clamp should eliminate that possibilty .

    Cheers, Vann.

    p.s. I'm intending to get myself the new side clamp, so it's good to hear you like it.
    Gatherer of rusty planes tools...
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  10. #9
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    I am getting an edge perpendicular to the side when tested but a skewed bevel. As per Lee Valleys instructions this is within the tolerance of the jig.

    if you are getting a skewed edge and bevel it will interesting to hear what LV suggest so please let us know.

    With the the redo of the old chisels are you looking to the jig and medium of your choice to get you from 27 to 25 degrees or are you grinding them first?

  11. #10
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    Keep in mind that this guide is intended for bevel edges chisels and especially those with very narrow lands. I tried it on my oval bolstered mortice chisels (which have nearly square sides - trapazoids) using the straight roller wheels. Note, to fit such deep blades one needs to use the second microbevel setting, which increases the space between the jaws and the roller.

    While the jaws would clamp the chisels in the resting state, they could not hold the chisel firmly enough to maintain the bevel angle. The story is different for very narrow chisels, say 1/8" and 3/16". The guide is designed for these chisels. It is not intended for anything else.

    I would not use the guide with the cambered wheel since this can introduce user-error into the process. Chisels do not need a camber.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  12. #11
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    Default out of square

    I glued strips of wet and dry sandpaper to the jaws of my standard MK2 honing guide to mitigate my out of square results. And, as Luke suggests, balanced clamping pressure.

  13. #12
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    Lee Valley's Response



    Thank you for your inquiry. We do have Replacement Rollers available for the MK II Honing Guide, although they won’t be stocked at your Carbatec Dealer. It’s Part Number is 05M0902, and it currently retails for $9.50 USD plus applicable shipping. As we don’t have it as an available part via our website, you’ll need to contact us directly at 1-613-596-0350.

    In regards to the issues you’re having, we do have some instructions from our Research and Development Team that outline a few things you can do to try and resolve the issue on your end. Some of which you’ve already done, some which you may not be aware of. They’re outlined as follows:

    There may be are several reasons that could be causing the out of parallel bevels with the Mk.II Honing Guide (05M0901). One reason may be due to the stones or surfaces being used to perform the sharpening. Switching from a coarse stone for the primary bevel to a fine one for the micro bevel will give a difference between the bevels, especially if the stones or sharpening surface are not flat.

    Another cause may be set-up and technique. The clamping jaws on the Mk.II Honing Guide are designed to be slightly concave throughout their length. Being concave, they should grip a flat blade at its four corners. When clamping the blade, it should be mounted in the center of the jaws using the scale on the top jaw. The jaws should be closed such that they are as close as possible to parallel, with equal pressure on both sides. The brass knurled-knobs should be tightened with sufficient finger pressure to hold the blade securely. During use, the paint from the jaws will get removed and this will help with the gripping of narrower blades.

    You need to ensure you hold the guide correctly to avoid the clamped chisel from moving. It is important to make sure that you handle the guide by the body of the guide and not by the chisel handle when moving around during sharpening. Please find attached 2 photos showing the proper hand position when using the honing guide.

    The other possibility is that chisels or blades may not have been ground exactly square or flat from the factory. Not to mention it’s fairly common for chisels to be twisted slightly along their length; this can lead to a difference between the bevels.

    Finally, it could just boil down to your dominant hand. If you are right handed, you may be pushing down a little harder on the right side of the blade during sharpening without even realizing it. This would result in a wider micro-bevel extending from the right side of the blade to the left. The same would be true if you were left handed in that the wider micro-bevel would be on the left side.

    Please let us know if we can at all be of further assistance.

    Kind Regards,

    Evan
    Customer Service Representative
    Lee Valley Tools Ltd.




    Lee Valley Service


    Just for clarification, I have sharpened chisels, plane blades for many years, starting out with Scary sharp method (Papers), up to waterstones, then onto diamond stones. I have freehanded and used jigs in the past, which have served me well. The mk 2 jig seemed like a good idea based on reviews so I purchased it a few years ago. I did however notice that my chisels/blades had a slight skew on them, even after I borrowed a tormek to set the grinds. They were not 90 degrees after i used the jig. I put this down to the tightness of the 2 screws holding down the plate. I was going to sell it, until the wood show 2 weeks ago when i purchased the narrow jig which by theory would fix any issues I had. Now i took 2 chisels and started at 25 degrees a 1 inch & 3/4 inch (not micro bevel) and found that they were both skewed. I then took a Japanese 42mm chisel and found it was started to skew as well. If i continued with it, the 42mm would have not been at right angles. I have taken apart the brass roller, checked its wearing, and it appears to be fine.

    I do prefer a jig as my freehand sharpening does cause me pain as I tend to hold my fingers close to the sharpened edge to feel the angle, this however after a few blades leaves little skin on my fingers, as I cannot feel it as I sharpen on the finer stones. I appreciate all the responses , and are in fact the same that Lee Valley offers. It might be an ebay item soon if I cannot straighten out the problem (No pun intended)

  14. #13
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    I also experienced this problem with skewed sharpening on the narrow blade assembly, resulting in an out of square edge (very annoying). I diagnosed the problem to be the jaws which were slightly skewed. Using a jeweler's file I very carefully fettled the jaws, just a few passes was enough, until the chisel was square to the rest of the assembly. Problem solved.

    Just thought I'd post this in case it helps someone else.

  15. #14
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    I currently own 3 of these; one normal, one cambered and one with the narrow jaws, as well as my own sharpening needs I use them for sharpening demos. I also find they can produce a skew and agree with the comment from Lee Valley in that excess pressure on one side due to uneven hand pressure will produce minor skewing. It’s really obvious when a novice uses one for the first time.

    Other than mentally applying more downforce to one side to counteract the “dominant hand” effect another way is to move your grip forward so that your finger pressure is on the blade itself.

    I prefer to hollow grind my blades on a Shepparch wetstone grinder and only very lightly touch the edge up on the stones with the jig; same effect as with freehand sharpening but without the propensity for it to dig in and produce an extra micro bevel
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  16. #15
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    Ive EXACTLY this problem.

    It is... irksome. I am irked!

    My main thoughts is the jig doesn't have enough registration along the edge to ensure it is actually straight.

    Since then Ive been keeping my eye out for something better... and it seems that a home made jig would be just the trick.

    Here are a few that have caught my attention. I think that a combo of the "bolt centre fold" one (pic 1) and the one by John Heisz I Build It (pic 2) would be an excellent design. There is also one by Izzy Swan... but Ive not found the pix yet.

    The second pic is my preference so far due to the long side registration. One does not need a square-square to even set it up.... it squares itself.

    Homemade Sharpening Jig Blog.jpg chisel-sharpening-jig (30).jpg 1 3127 detail_t.jpg 1 5228_t.jpg Screenshot_2020-06-26 Making Wooden sander grinder bench grinder powered(1).jpg Screenshot_2020-06-26 Making Wooden sander grinder bench grinder powered(2).jpg Screenshot_2020-06-26 Making Wooden sander grinder bench grinder powered.jpg


    supplementary images of Jig 2

    This is an important point, I think, for one can use cheap sandpaper on a board and KNOW that it is flat/perpendicular to the surface, whereas a stones surface may not be....

    chisel-sharpening-jig (26).jpg chisel-sharpening-jig (27).jpg

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