Needs Pictures: 0
Picture(s) thanks: 0
Results 1 to 7 of 7
Thread: Heritage Saws
-
14th September 2020, 11:08 PM #1Senior Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
- Posts
- 289
Heritage Saws
G'day,
Just wondering if anyone has gotten their mitts onto the produce of Heritage Saws, sold through Vintage Tool Shop in Melbourne? They make various traditional style brass backed saws. I'm interested in a carcass and a tenon saw, and have tossed up a few options including Veritas, Lie Nielsen & Bad Axe.
Heritage Saws generally don't advertise prices, but they have one on their website at the moment, and it's close to Bad Axe prices. I don't have a problem with them charging for hand made tools, but in comparison, Bad Axe do quite a magnificent job of telling you exactly why their saws are the bees' knees, whereas Heritage basically tell you they make saws in Melbourne.
Side note, I find it bizarre that their brand stamp on the brass is so wonky. I guess it must be some sort of reference to the way they did it in the olden days? I don't like it!
Here's the one they have the price up for.. A HERITAGE SAWS Custom FITZROY model CARCASS SAW with Australian BEEFW
– VintageToolShop
-
14th September 2020 11:08 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
- Join Date
- Always
- Location
- Advertising world
- Posts
- Many
-
15th September 2020, 12:16 AM #2
Beautiful looking saw. It looks well-filed. I do not care about the slightly-"wonky" stamp ... it is a stamp and hand applied, after all. The choice of wood, and its shaping are exceptional. The shape of the handle is right up my alley (very similar to the ones I make, which are heavier at the base). The hang looks right. The only ... minor ... niggle is that the saw nuts are not the traditional split nuts. I am used to seeing them at this price. Where are the dimensions? I'd love to see a saw cut.
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
-
15th September 2020, 03:25 AM #3
in for a penny, in for a ...
my niggles ...
the dimensions of the saw ?? -- blade length, depth of cut, etc.
inclusion of what appears to be sap wood in an otherwise very well positioned and crafted pistol style handle -- suggests a lack of attention to fine detail.
although described as a "carcass saw" and filed 13 ppi cross-cut, the saw itself appears to be more "dovetail" size. (The inclusion of blade length and depth of cut would really help in this regard)
am I tempted ??
not at a price comparable to a "Bad Axe" when there is so little detail in the descriptionregards from Alberta, Canada
ian
-
15th September 2020, 09:06 AM #4
Well, I've made one or two saws, so I know there's about $25-30 worth of material in that one, depending what the Beefwood cost. Ian, Beefwood is not a very big tree, they did well to get such a well-quartered piece big enough for a handle, so you can probably excuse a touch of paler outer wood. I sometimes include paler wood at the top of a handle for the same reason, or simply because I like the look.
The devil is in the making. Using no machines other than a drill press, it takes me a full day to make a handle, fit the blade & spine, tooth, set, sharpen & test (I would have made the bolts & slotted a back previously, so add another hour for that & other incidentals). There's about 9 hours work in something like this: Sw oak recyc blade.jpg
I would expect the Heritage folks use a bit more machinery and a slightly more streamlined production process, but a lot of saw-making is still hand-work, so there are still quite a few hours in any decent saw. I reckon the retail price is probably realistic, reflecting current labour, overheads, retailing costs, etc., and they are unlikely to be making a killing. Whether the product is "worth the price" is up to the person jingling the coins in their pocket & contemplating the purchase.
I have little doubt it would be an excellent saw out of the box, depending on what you want to do with it and what suits your hand. Using the handle for scale, I'd guestimate it's a 250mm blade, and probably a 75mm wide plate, so the depth of cut would be that minus what's inside the spine. Names like "dovetail", "tenon", "carcase" are meaningless, imo, there is more variation within categories than between them. I advise choosing a saw with what you are going to do with it firmly in mind as far as tpi & profile are concerned, and very importantly, how the saw feels in your hand. Some prefer larger, some smaller saws to do the same task, but I can saw better with a saw that sits well in my hand, even if it's a touch larger or smaller than I'd prefer for a given job. The hang angle on the saw in question is fairly high, allowing it to clear the workpiece, so it would suit cutting at bench-height on a bench hook, an ability I require of a "carcase" saw.
What you need to think of is, what happens when the saw needs sharpening? I keep banging on about this, but if you want that saw to remain a very good saw, it will need frequent sharpening. Saws are just edge tools, & while there are more edges sharing the work, the metal is softer than a plane or chisel blade, so the gloss will go off your new saw pretty quickly. A morning sawing Spotted gum is enough to leave you with a dull saw. Sharpening a crosscut saw well is not easy, it takes a lot of practice to do it really well. I miss the days when there was a good saw-sharpener in town! There are fewer & fewer commercial saw-sharpeners left with the genuine skills, so anyone wanting to keep a good saw in top condition will probably have to learn how to do it for themselves or be left with an expensive ornament in their tool cabinet.
Any old pre-WW2 Disston can be fettled to be every bit as good as a Heritage, Bad-axe, You-name-it, so if you really want to get into "good" saws, get yourself an old saw for a few $s & learn to sharpen & set it. Take heart, even a not-so-well sharpened saw is better than a totally dull one, and after a few dozen sharpenings, you'll be able to produce a saw that performs as well as the best. By then you may decide you don't need a Bad-axe at all, but if you still lust after one, at least you'll be able to keep it in top condition....
Cheers,
P.S. Derek, split nuts may look quaint, and are slightly easier to fit, but I much prefer the "new" style saw bolts, myself. The flush heads & nuts look fine when the saw is first assembled & finished, but inevitably, the bolts loosen after a few moisture cycles & need tightening up, after which the bolt will be sticking up above the nut, which can be very annoying since it's often right under the tip of your index finger. I made split nuts before I had a metal lathe, but have long since switched to the "modern" cap-nuts, I don't think they look any less attractive: D8 B_wd handle.jpg
And I no longer have to go digging for a special driver just to tighten a loose handle....IW
-
15th September 2020, 11:17 AM #5Senior Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
- Posts
- 289
Thanks for the great responses.. of course, I would expect nothing less!
Lots of food for thought there.. I've had a half-hearted go at sharpening in the past, with less than stellar results, but would be willing to try again. Are there any particularly good resources to help with sharpening? And would I be right in thinking that one would need to learn about straightening, tensioning etc first?
Side question - I bought a couple of massive, evil-looking Disston rip saws from the shop in question a while ago, so they would've been sharpened by the same bloke (I believe). They're 2.5 & 4 tpi approximately. I bought them with the intention of using for bits of resawing until I press some bandsaws into service. While they've done the job (especially the 4tpi) I've found them to not be super pleasant to use.. is resawing 100-120mm wide European beech by hand just an intrinsically unpleasant experience? Is this an appropriate tool for the job?
Thankyou kindly for the advice.
-
15th September 2020, 12:01 PM #6
Ben, like any other skill, it takes time to master. Most back-yard warriors can become sufficiently competent at sharpening with a little persistence, but most won't get enough practice doing their own saws to claim expert status. That's fine, like planes & chisels, you do your best, and over the years you get better....
I think the best place for a beginner to start is still this primer. It's an oldie but a goodie. Sharpening a rip saw is about 5 times easier than a typical crosscut, so start with one of those, and preferably with 10-12tpi, which is a comfortable size to see.
Those are beasts indeed! But for re-sawing 120mm thick, that sort of tpi is appropriate, you would have 12-15 teeth in the cut, which should be ok, but large teeth do 'bite' hard. They'll be mighty uncomfortable to use for sawing anything much thinner than 100mm - a 7tpi hand saw is what I'd use for ripping a board of 30mm or less thickness.
Roughness has several causes. The most obvious, & easiest to solve is because you are sawing straight across the grain. Be sure to angle the saw a little. The other common cause of roughness is a couple of overly-tall teeth. I wouldn't expect that on a profesionally-sharpened saw, but it can happen. Usually, the high teeth wear down pretty quickly & the saw "settles down". Another cause is too high a rake angle. For inexperienced sawyers I recommend a rake angle no higher than (-)5 degrees. If the front edges of your teeth are too perpendicular, they will grab at the wood and cause a rough action. (Powered bandsaws have positive rake on their teeth, but they don't feel any pain).
I started sharpening saws seriously about 25 years ago when I moved back to the city and suddenly found myself bereft of a reliable saw-sharpener. So I got some files & had at it, but my first efforts were not terribly promising - the saw reminded me of some of the very old, broken-mouthed horses I've seen! But gradually, I got the idea of fleam & rake sorted, the muscles learned to move consistently & evenly, and my saws look more like saws these days, and cut as well as they did when I had them done by skilled pros.
So my advice is, just keep at it - a well-sharpened saw, of suitable size & with tpi appropriate to the task in hand can be a delight to use. However, the converse is also true - a dull, poorly set saw that is too fine or too coarse for what you are trying to do can be an exercise in frustration!
Cheers,IW
-
15th September 2020, 01:09 PM #7Senior Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
- Posts
- 289
Thanks again.. I will attend to the homework you've set! As much as I enjoy the beautiful tools there are available to buy, I also can't resist a bit of DIY, and you're making it sound quite achievable.
Cheers!
Similar Threads
-
Frames Saws/Bows Saws for re-sawing small boards 100mm deep
By Kate84TS in forum HAND TOOLS - UNPOWEREDReplies: 29Last Post: 15th April 2017, 03:15 PM -
Heritage Exhibition at Hall ACT
By gmoss in forum CLUB EVENTS - News & InformationReplies: 3Last Post: 3rd May 2013, 09:30 AM -
Heritage Auction
By silkwood in forum WINEReplies: 1Last Post: 13th June 2007, 11:20 AM -
Help..Heritage Gas Space Heater!!
By some_one in forum HEATING & COOLINGReplies: 0Last Post: 8th April 2006, 08:06 PM -
Heritage verandah
By anna in forum FLOORING, DECKING, STUMPS, etc.Replies: 6Last Post: 26th October 2004, 10:19 PM