Thread: Homemade Plane Blades from M2 HSS for Wooden Planes

Hello TS,

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

I have a supplier for M2 HSS at 6 mm x 50 mm for $148.04 meter that can be cut for me into 10 cm lengths which will give me 10 nice long blades.

The cutting probably takes place with a wheel grinder cutter having thin wheel. Those machines are usually able to cut angles at least up 45 deg as well. So, it would make the rest of the grinding easier if most of the stuff is readily gone.

Since this M2 HSS is hardened from the factory their would be no need for me to temper the metal?

Yes, it is as you assume. Hardened but not tempered HSS not very usable material.

This however seems very simple and raises the questions to why are not more people simple do not buying M2 HSS to make their own plane blades.

Well, Derek can answer to you on that .

For HSS on my behalf, am always worrying about the HSS tempering history, and the amount of residual austenite which makes HSS brittle if there is too much of it left. A proper tempering stage for M2 usually requires three different tempering cycles in which the volume of the austenite phase decreases down to insignificant amount when considering for example edge holding properties. In this sense, I am one helluva quality freak because in those applications at work where we need HSS or other special metals and alloys, things are just quite critical. I have transferred that attitude into plane irons, too, because I personally can't see why on earth things can't be done properly when there is almost the same amount of time and money put into effort.

I have homemade HSS plane irons, chisels, knifes and other cutting edges and tools I use frequently. They are good, and I have got them from good sources. They are tougher to sharpen, but they will pay it back when working with them.

What am I missing or is it that simple?

Basically, I started in the same way. Then I started collecting classic irons from worn out woodies. With those oldies, there is usually some kind of "propeller effect" to be seen, some of those irons are quite thwacked and usually need flattening anyway.

But now, when you are gaining irons from a readily flat HSS stock, there is probably very little work awaiting on that side. So it's good.

Then it simple a question of build the plane around the blade.

Precisely so.

Mind You if I comment something? I think there would be more fun if you do not order all the iron blanks as similar. For a Krenov-style low-profile plane, that is quite good blank size, could be even shorter, too. Then again, if you suddenly want to make an infill like Norris, you need a bit longer iron. 50mm width is basically a classic width, but if it would be possible, I would ask a couple of blanks to be cut narrower, like for a one-hand block plane. It would be perhaps a good idea to make a shoulder plane, where you need T-shaped iron. Or a plough plane. Or...

Have fun!

kippis,

sumu

Originally Posted by sumu

For HSS on my behalf, am always worrying about the HSS tempering history, and the amount of residual austenite which makes HSS brittle if there is too much of it left.

Sumu how can I know if the residual austenite has been reduced and if the metal has been tempered correctly. Would I be able to temper the HSS myself and if so how would I go about this?

I will take you advice on board and have the blade cut to different lengths and widths.

I am thinking of making a few traditional European box/rectangle shaped planes with enclosed totes and knobs however with a 60º bed to deal with Australian Hardwoods. I also will have the bed/throat a little further back then traditional European planes more like the Chinese/Japanese planes. I would also like to make a low angle Bevel up miter plane.

I made a spokeshave blade out of a stock piece of M2 HSS, It took me hours to grind the bevel and getting the back flat. Because I was hand holding the blade in the grinder I had to stop and cool often during the grinding of the bevel. I don't think I would bother again using this stuff for wide blades unless I had a better grinding arrangement. Maybe that's also because I have a nice stash of various sizes of O1 gauge plate in my shed including some up to 100 mm wide.

I have made a 1/4" and 3/8" chisels out of M2 HSS and lthough it took some time to grind the bevel it's not too time consuming. I think it does take longer to sharpen but it holds its edge for longer but let's not renew that argument again.

My favorite home made blades are the 1" and 3/4" shoulder plane blades and smallchisels I made from old files, they are harder than regular plane and chisel blades because I did not quite temper them back (using a normal domestic oven) to normal ww blade temper. They hold their edge well, not too hard to sharpen and cut like demons. The only thing I would not do with these is belt them with a big hammer but then we shouldn't be doing that anyway should we.

Tempering M2 really needs a proper temp controlled furnace that can get up to 1250 oC. If you are interested in a document on what is required to heat treatment M2 PM me. A2 and O1 are a bit easier as you only need ~860 oC!

Bob it sound like I will take sumu's advice to get M2 cut at 30º at the shop.

Something like this:
_________
| \ | \ | \ |
_________

I ignore the whole argument about sharpening HSS as I am a believer and could not be happier with HSS as a tool steel.

Since I cannot temper the HSS myself It seems that is a question of getting the M2 HSS for a good supplier. Can anyone recommend a international manufacturer that can be relied upon to temper it correctly?

I can get M2 HSS from Bohler-Uddeholm they seem to be good manufacturer? Anyone know if they are? I have also interlloy an Australian company able to sell me M2 HSS.

Would the manufacture be able to supply certification that the M2 HSS triple tempered?

I take it the 'home-made plane bug' has bitten? We must compare notes!

Originally Posted by kman-oz

I take it the 'home-made plane bug' has bitten? We must compare notes!

Possible

I really enjoy wooden planes and I am looking to make some specialty planes as well, and I have plans to make wooden try squares, and dovetail markers as well.

Kman - I read up your thread you started on the subject. If you like I can pass on one or two of the plane irons for you when I cut up the M2 HSS.

That would be extremely useful, thank you! I really must finish up the current planes so I can update that thread, the O1 iron from Terry Gordan has made a huge difference to performance.

Options for thick M2 bevel making are (a) use a 4" angle grinder, or (b) try roughing it out with an Inox wheel (the 1mm thick jobs) in the angle grinder.

I made a lathe hook tool out of 1.5" x 3/8 M2 using these techniques. Much quicker than a bench grinder.

I have a 4" angle grinder which would work out good.

Originally Posted by sumu

. They are tougher to sharpen, but they will pay it back when working with them.

I've found a grinding/buffing wheel only sharpening process particularily useful with HSS.

Thats about all I can offer on HSS.

Still think one of the best sources of blade steel is already out there. Old woodie blades. $2 - 5 each sort of thing. Or free. I reharden the edges of those blades I feel are bit too soft. But generally their fine. Can shape them to whatever shape you like. And the makers mark/emblem at the end of the blade gives it some character. More interesting.

These blades normally go to rust anyway. Don't like letting things go to waste if I can help it.

Hello fellas

Jake, I agree with you there. Old steel is fine steel, gives me kicks, too.

Variable speed belt sander is also very useful when used in side-sharpening manner and with a support, just a bit skewed position. Or you can hollow-grind it on the roll region. I just like to use diamond whetstones myself, they are not so damn noisy .

But buffing wheel is an absolute must. Get the best there is, the hardest and rigid one, and made of fibers that accept oils and waxes, that is, can be well wetted by hydrocarbon-based binders so that they hold them polishing particles.


TS,

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

I can get M2 HSS from Bohler-Uddeholm they seem to be good manufacturer? Anyone know if they are? I have also interlloy an Australian company able to sell me M2 HSS.

Would the manufacture be able to supply certification that the M2 HSS triple tempered?

Bohler-Uddeholm is one of the best quality suppliers there is. We use their materials frequently, mainly specials like powder metals. There is other suppliers, too, but if you have a chance to order Bohler-Uddeholm products directly from factory representative, I would recommend to do so on my behalf.

Here is some of their data sheets and charts. They are nice-to-know -type of stuff. To really use them you need a bit more information and experience to use that information on your own. I am not patronizing you, of course .
http://www.buau.com.au/english/b_2488.htm

The heat-treatment history info is basic data and usually included or should be able to be asked with the product. Chemical analysis of some particular lot of steel is more rare. Generally a bit deep stuff for an average consumer, too.

To completely verify the properties of the steel before in use requires access to an advanced lab with someone who really can use the lab.

In a better machine shop there is usually hardness testers. Hardness determination is one of the straightforward methods, there is portable measurement devices which can be used in-situ measurements. They need well-polished regions on the specimen surface to make the measurement. A proper hardness test will tell you if the steel is hardened at all (too soft), and some hint if it is tempered at all (possibly too hard). You just compare the factory data sheet with those values.


Oh man. If I go any further here in describing things, I will make this way too complicated issue. Sorry . HSS and how to treat it and use it is not actually complicated, only demanding in precision.

Here it is more like a product service issue. It does not sound too much of investment even it would fail. More likely it will be successful in terms of steel, and then the rest of the planemaking is up to you. I'd say Go for it .

kippis,

sumu

Sumu thank you your comments have been most helpful.

*EDIT*

One quick question is P20 another name for M2? The sales guy at Interlloy said, it was.

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

Sumu thank you your comments have been most helpful.

*EDIT*

One quick question is P20 another name for M2? The sales guy at Interlloy said, it was.

Nope they are different.

P20 has less C, Mn, Si, Cr, a lot less Mo, and no V or W.
P20 is also a lot softer reaching a max Rockwell C hardness of 53 compared to M2 of 65.

That heat treatment doc I recommended has all this stuff in it.

BTW we have all the Rockwell hardness testing gear at work and I have used it to test all the stuff I make. Another fun use is going to hardware stores, buying up various scraper blades and cheap tools and then testing them out and returning the ones that don't suit my needs. The testing leaves a tiny dimple in the surface - its generally so small you can barely see it.

Hello TS,

I think that AISI P20 is different than M2.

Here is ThyssenKrupp listing of some of their offerings:
http://www.thyssen.co.uk/newsite/Toolsteel.htm

kippis,

sumu