Thread: Improving a Stanley 4 1/2 plane?

Hi John,

What sort of vintage is it? If it's a recent one, I'd suggest not bothering , but if it's 1940s or earlier, then it should be worth having; if so, I'd recommend a Lie Nielsen replacement blade and companion chipbreaker.

The main thing to do with the plane body is to make sure that the sole if flat - really flat, and that the frog is properly aligned with the body, and square with the mouth.

Also, check that there are no cracks in the body, and that someone hasn't mucked around with the mouth.

Best of all, check to see if Derek Cohen answers your query, and if he does, do whatever he says - he's a real guru on this sort of thing.

Cheers!

Here's a hot 4 1/2, tricked up with all the aftermarket doodads folks tout today:



http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/r...cles_449.shtml

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...nsive+smoother

Bottom line after many months of use?

Ignoring the 50-degree business, the aftermarket iron and chipbreaker gained me nothing over a well-tuned plane with a stock iron assembly.

A well-fitted and sharpened iron assembly is only half the battle, and stock can be made to work just as well.

The only advantage I can see for anybody is that the Hock iron is dead flat and doesn't take long to hone to perfection.

Bob, like the handles, did you make them? Nice and chunky, gives you something to grab, particularly for #6 and above.

I think that Bob makes a few good points, although I will still argue them.

On the Aussie hardwoods I use, there is not a lot of diiference between a 45 degree and 50 degree cutting angle. Neither do terribly much to tame tearout. It is only when one gets to 60 degrees (and I generally use 62-65 degrees) that you will notice a significant difference in bed angles in a bevel down plane or bevel angles in a bevel up plane. Cutting angle is still the most significant factor in taming tearout in Aussie hardwood. In less demanding timber it is far less relevant what you use and the differences in performance are minimized.

I tend to use my Stanley planes only for softwoods or straight grained varieties of hardwood since they are set up without a backbevel. A 15 degree backbevel will significantly alter the planing characteristics.

The question is "will an A2 blade and an aftermarket chipbreaker make a difference to a Stanley plane"? The answer is "Yes they will". This is more apparent after a short while, however. A well-tuned Stanley plane and a sharp blade at a standard angle can work as well as one with the A2, etc BUT it will not hold its edge as long and it will lose its performance quite quickly in comparison.

Further, in the hands of an experienced handplaner, the Stanley plus thin blade can be made to work pretty well (within its envelope). There are plenty of great pieces of furniture around in testament to this. However, in the hands of the less experienced - one who tries sets the blade projection a tad too far, or does not angle the plane correctly - then a thicker blade is going to reduce the likelihood of chatter.

In other words, the thicker, harder, heavier blades are going to improve performance. It is just that the conditions to demonstrate this may not be appropriate. One of the points I made in my review of the Veritas BU Smoother was that my Stanley #4 1/2 (with Clifton blade and chipbreaker) performed at an equal level on non-demanding woods. It was only when the conditions changed - difficult hardwoods were included - that the potential was evident.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I would also add that a Hock or LN blade will last longer between honings than a standard Stanley or other brand thin blade.

This is apparent on any type of timber. I usually don't plane softwoods either. But even when I do, the thicker blades last so much longer they make it worth it.

Take care, Mike

Bob, thats got to be the "fatboy lowrider" of rear totes. Chunky!

I read the article and was fascinated, as usual more than worth the time looking and reading.
Fantastic!

A well-tuned Stanley plane and a sharp blade at a standard angle can work as well as one with the A2, etc BUT it will not hold its edge as long and it will lose its performance quite quickly in comparison.

I keep hearing this comment from folks of low to moderate experience, and I'm coming to think the plane iron advertising from various makers and their magazine writer pals have way more influence than they should.

I use stock planes every day on the job building boats, cabinets, etc...I only have one of each model, and I've only dismantled and sharpened one fo them in the past year. The block, of course. The others don't need it yet.

Granted, I work in 70% Doug Fir/Cedars and 20% hard maple, madrone, etc....and not euchalypts....but I'm not buying into the "you need to have this" hype.

Granted, I work in 70% Doug Fir/Cedars and 20% hard maple, madrone, etc....and not euchalypts....but I'm not buying into the "you need to have this" hype.

Bob

No one says "you need to have". Certainly not I. I simply said that A2 will outlast HCS, and that a thicker blade has advantages over a thinner blade. I wish I could send you a board or two of Karri, Jarrah or, ohmygosh, Blackbutt, and witness your experience planing these with a standard Stanley setup My experience with hard Maple has been that it is quite easy going in comparison.

Horses for courses?

Regards from Perth

Derek

I keep hearing this comment from folks of low to moderate experience...

I use stock planes every day on the job building boats, cabinets, etc...I only have one of each model, and I've only dismantled and sharpened one fo them in the past year. The block, of course. The others don't need it yet.

And I keep hearing the latter statement from people who end up in sharpening classes I get paid to teach. They leave with an understanding of what sharp is, regardless of what type of timber they use.

In a real, working cabinet shop--or a shop that makes a single piece a year--if one is doing more than preparing lumber for sanding, or working wood that is tough with figured grain, a sharp blade is wonderful.

One that lasts longer than 5 minutes of real work, priceless.

Seldom in Oregon, USA, does it matter for many whether the blade is a stock blade or a thicker replacement. Doesn't matter to me what kind of planes or irons folks bring to class and the issue is only brought up in response to questions. The issue is how quickly the blade is no longer cutting efficiently--never mind at all--and cleanly.

The reason I have replacement blades in most of my vintage planes has to do with efficient work in harder imported timbers. Even at that, Cedar and Pine benefit from a sharp blade--it is me that benefits from not having to stop as often to sharpen.

It is funny that such an advocate of pre-war, tough chisels that hold an edge feels thin flimsy blades that need sharpening often when real work is being done doesn't think a user would benefit from a blade that holds an edge longer, regardless of the wood.

Take care, Mike

Funny how preferences and experience can come up with such different conclusions.

I'll skip y'all's classes on planes, tropical hardwoods and sharpening, thanks. I'm a bit set in my ways, and I do my own teaching...primarily to folks not well-heeled enuf to afford 300-dollar prestige planes and 60-dollar aftermarket iron sets for their 30-dollar planes. There are usually higher-priority tools to buy for beginenrs.

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl#smalser

There might even be a tutorial or three in there on professional sharpening of every tool in the kit, too.

Originally Posted by Bob Smalser

...and I do my own teaching...primarily to folks not well-heeled enuf to afford 300-dollar prestige planes and 60-dollar aftermarket iron sets for their 30-dollar planes.

And exactly what did I write where you thought I was pushing high-dollar anything?

Or was that a generality?

I think if you look around the net--which you have as we frequent the same forums for the most part--I mostly recommend old iron. It's my preference. When someone asks specifically about X or Y new tool, I'll generally answer them specifically. If I think it is appropriate to what they are thinking will I suggest old tools. But many do not wish to take a chance on old tools, or they do not wish to fix one up.

And I think I've shown pics of taking thin shavings using a Stanley Handyman like this:

http://wenzloffandsons.com/temp/handyman/index.html

All my wife did to it when she got it was sharpen the blade to 2k grit and take a spin in all its horrible glory on some hard Maple. Respectable shavings. Not at all practical except for final smoothing, either. But it does demonstrate what even an untuned old plane many would classify as junk can do.

The rest--how long an edge can last in a shop--is just divergent experience. Well, and a little belittling to the folks not well-heeled enough to just drop serious cash and choose instead to scrimp and save to buy what they want.

For those with ready cash to spend, why shouldn't they. Who knows. They even might have enough cash to be able to buy a boat or have someone rebuild one for them.

Take care, Mike

Juts to bypass all the exitement.

John mate, firts things first.
get the thing tuned up and the blade good & sharp & see how it runs for you before you shell out on the go faster bits.
If its a sweethart in good nick with all the original bits, I'd be inclined to keep it in its original form ( tuned & sharp) & pick up a less pretty example for some mods.
cheers