Thread: Infill Plane

Hi Martin, I adjusted your pics a bit so they look the right way up for we upside-down folks in the southern hemisphere.....

However, I can't provide you with any useful information. It's an interesting plane, never seen the likes before. At first I thought someone had screwed some steel side plates onto an old woodie (I have seen a broken one "fixed" that way), but decided it was a genuine "infill" when I took a closer look. I presume the sides are joined to a steel sole - by dovetails, or is it a pressed channel?

It is sort of a "transitional" infill, how a wooden plane maker might envisage a steel-bodied version. The dates you quote would put it in the very earliest infill period. I'll be very interested if anyone can shed more light on this one...
Cheers,
Ian

Hi Ian,

It is a pressed channel with the wood stuffed into the
channel. The date i came up with 1851-1861 is because there
was no info on a plane maker named Ashton. I came across
a census page with a plane maker named Ashton born in UK
in 1828 and it stated his first occupation was a plane maker
from 1851-1861 then went on to become an edge tool maker.
Someone has said he is mentioned in the the Goodman British
Plane Makers book.


Martin.

Hi Martin, not getting too many answers from the 'rhykenologists', either here or on the UK forum - I think you may have stumped the brains trust again!

I'm leaning towards the thought I had on first seeing this plane, that it's a 'user-made'. If Ashton (or anyone) had been in business as a planemaker for 10 years, he would've churned out a goodly number of planes, & surely enough would have survived to be recognised in the U.K. at least. Such a different interpretation of an infill from most of the 19th century crop would be unlikely to go unremarked!

It looks nicely done from your pics (what's the mouth like?), & a class above this jack plane made by my father during the "great depression" (from a length of channel iron). 1 Old jack.jpg

The blade-retaining system is about as basic as it gets: 4 Frog screw.jpg

It works, though not quite up to Lie-Nielsen standards - thick shavings only, the sole is too un-flat for fine settings: 6 Shavings.jpg

I've several times thought about refining it a bit but decided it's better left as it is as a memento of the times & my old pot's ingenuity & persistence...
Cheers,
Ian

Hi Ian,

I E Mailed Jane Rees author of the 4th edition of
Goodman British Plane Makers Book and she said he was a
Plane Maker from 1851 but that is all the info about Samual Ashton.
The plane has a lovely cupids Bow bridge. The sole is 2 7/8 across
and 11 3/4 " long. The blade is 2 3/8" wide and the mouth is 2 5/8"
wide and 1/2" wide and is very neatly done. The name Ashton has a
zig zag stamp around the name. ????

Martin.

Well I hope you get a good a good answer eventually. The plane is in truly remarkable condition for a tool made between 160-170 years ago, but there are other survivors of equal or greater age. If you can establish your plane was made by Ashton in his planemaking days, it would have to be a very collectable item, one would think, given its unique construction...
Cheers,
Ian

Originally Posted by IanW

Well I hope you get a good a good answer eventually. The plane is in truly remarkable condition for a tool made between 160-170 years ago, but there are other survivors of equal or greater age. If you can establish your plane was made by Ashton in his planemaking days, it would have to be a very collectable item, one would think, given its unique construction...
Cheers,
Ian

thanks Ian.

I'm dorky for this kind of thing out of curiosity and have a very old early cast infill and have had a few others.

I've never found them to have much value unless they're miter planes from a known maker, and that one has a cracked casting and a lot of repairs.

BUT, you may find it to be an exceptional user depending on what user means to you. In my experience, the days before bailey took over the metal plane market, you could get all kinds of stuff as attached on soles, castings with wood infilled, etc, and some was probably sold as castings for cabinetmaker's to make a stable plane to plane hardwoods, and others may have been professionally made (but there isn't the same kind of uniformity there was around 1900 where the process for the professionally made planes was so well refined).

My very favorite infill plane is a later panel plane made from a casting (it's more refined like a spiers), and that's above and beyond some very expensive dovetailed planes of the same size made by Norris, Mathieson and Spiers. You just never know....but I can say for sure a mild steel dovetailed plane if it's got any weight at all will be tiring to use, and the longer planes tend to be very nose heavy and fatiguing to use in more than hobby work (I like to work entirely by hand sometimes, and if you're doing larger furniture type stuff with an infill panel plane instead of a good tight wooden try plane, the effort is double or quadruple and "balls on floor" syndrome comes early. I had a beautiful 17 1/2" buck rosewood dovetailed plane (labeled buck, but made by norris) that was stunning to look at but the top strap on your forearm was toast in short order in anything other than a little bit of smoothing wood for play.

To the extent that the earlier casted planes tend to be a bit more slick and sometimes lighter, they're actually easier to use, and cast is easier to flatten usually than mild steel (which is better draw filed than lapped - a large mild steel plane with a lot to correct on the sole is a *bear* of a task to undertake lapping. Perhaps a couple of workdays and $40 of sandpaper - it pays to be able to draw file the soles with a flexible file on such a plane and lap to final trueness only as a check while filing (which can take a 10th of the time and cost only about $5 of file consumed).

I know nothing about this, Martin, but it is fascinating.

Googled "S Ashton planes" and got several hits as:

• Maker of wooden bodied hand planes - coffins, etc, and
• Maker of plane irons.

No mention of any infill or other metal bodied planes, though.

However, if he was working in both wood and metal it is feasible that he may have experimented with or even prototyped an infill plane. Have you considered how the logo on your infill plane compares with that on the wooden planes or plane irons?

Could you post a couple more photos of your infill please, Martin, including:

• three quarter shot showing plane sole, side and one end, and
• close up shot of the logo.

Cheers

Graeme

Hi Graeme,


Here are a few more pics.IMG_20210630_104251.jpgIMG_20210630_104045.jpgIMG_20210630_104040.jpgIMG_20210630_104112.jpgIMG_20210630_104045.jpg

Hi Graeme,
One of the side.

Martin.IMG_20210630_104125.jpg

Thanks, Martin; I have tried to find photos of Samuel Ashton's logo on his wooden planes but was unsuccessful. However I did find three logo's on plane blades - one was too faint to copy - and can compare them to your logo (first picture):

Ashton Plane Blade 1.jpg Ashton Plane Blade 2.jpg Ashton Plane Blade 3.jpg

The logos are all different, but the font used is virtually identical. Not conclusive, but ....

From the little I have learned about Ashton it seems that he may have been active from c.1850 to c.1900, making wooden bodied planes in the 1850's and plane irons thereafter. If your plane was a prototype made in the 1850's when he was making woodies then it would be historically very significant - an embryonic infill plane. But if it was simply a shop-made plane for himself later in his career when Spiers, Mathiesen, et al were making infills, then its significance may lessen.

I hope your research is productive.

one-off or limited make casted planes are common and even if they are unique, unless they are made by holland and holland, spiers or norris, they tend not to bring much

(which can be an asset if you want to use them).

I've seen and may have ashton plane irons. I don't think I have had any ashton wooden planes (though have bought a bunch of planes and parts directly from england).

Infill plane iron.

The Blade in the Plane is by Moulson
Brothers 1828-1898. The Blade Logo changed Three
times in the David Russel book on Antique Woodworking
Tools. Here are the three Irons in the book. The one in
my infill plane does not have the cast steel Warranted
logo on it. Could my blade be earlier than the ones shown
in the Book?
Martin.IMG_20210701_104945.jpgIMG_20210701_104824.jpgIMG_20210701_104746.jpgThis one is in the Infill Plane.