Thread: Infill Shoulder Plane Design

Personally, I consider 25mm too wide for a shoulder plane, 19 or 16mm is better

but
is this an exercise in design and manufacture?
or
is the intent to produce a working tool that will remain a favourite for the rest of your life?
if the latter width does matter
if the former, whatever looks right and is relatively easy to make would do

some additional comments,
the sole should be in two parts -- not one as you've shown
ideally there should be some way to adjust the mouth opening
I suggest you tone down the "ski jump" on the toe

TS - I've made 2 shoulder planes, starting with a pretty crude first try & finishing with the one below, so take my comments as coming from someone only a step further down the track than yourself.

This plane is built around the 1 1/4" Record blade. In contrast to the other Ian, I find this a very useful size for the sort of work I do with it - it has great heft but is very easy to control. I occasionally wish for a narrower plane to clean out small grooves, etc., and have been intending to get around to making one for many years. However, LV came out with those funny little rebate planes, & I bought the 8mm, which does the job nicely. I will still make my own - whenigetaroundtuit!

I went to a bit of trouble to make the adjustable mouth. It works ok, but is more bother than it's worth, IMO. Ditto for the screw adjustor, which doesn't work very well at all, partly because the screw pitch is a too coarse, & partly because it's just a flawed design. It tends to skew the blade as you try to adjust it, which provokes much frustration & bad language. I soon learnt to adjust with a small hammer or piece of wood & forget about the adjustor altogether. These are planes that you tend to set once after sharpening and leave where they are until the next sharpening is required, anyway.

I intend making another one day, and it will have a thicker blade, a fixed mouth, no adjustor, and full dovetail construction. The current plane is a hodge-podge of part dovetail, & part silver soldered. The blade bed is cut from a piece of 1/2" thick brass. I didn't think my skills at the time were up to cutting & fitting dovetails on that triangular profile, so I wimped out and soldered the sides to the sole, reasoning that with so much 'glueing surface' it would be a strong joint. At least that prognosis turned out to be accurate - 25 years of use & a couple of heavy falls and it is still rock solid. In future, I will use steel for the sole - brass is a bit too soft & marks too easily.

The front piece is dovetailed (not very well, as you can see), and extends down over the front to prevent the toe-piece from being jammed into the blade if it hits an obstacle. I did that because the adjustable toe of my 61 1/2 was always getting jammed against the blade. There is a screw which comes down through a slot in the infill & pulls the toe-piece tight against the sides to lock it in place. The 'wedge' is actually a 'lever cap' and pivots on two brass screws, being tightened by a thumb screw that engages a threaded insert in the wood. This saved having to figure out how to fit the traditional metal insert for a wedge to bear on.

I made this plane when my understanding of planes was in a very early phase. There were no blogs or forums back then, so just I made it up as I went along. It's pure luck it ended up working as well as it does. I see all sorts of faults in its aesthetics & construction now, but it has been & still is, a very useful tool - I couldn't be without a shoulder plane any more.....

Addendum: WRT the sole - next time round I will do a more traditional thing and dovetail a flat sole (of around 3/16") to the sides. The "chatter block", which forms the first part of the blade bed will be rivetted to the flat sole, and the rest of the blade bed will be wood infill as in my old plane. That seems to me to be the only practical way to do a dovetail construction...
Cheers,

Ian

It is a process to design a set of shoulder planes that I intent to use.

I intend to make the shape out of pine, to feel the shape. I expect that things like the sky jump will see changes.

According to widths, I may end up making 25 mm or 20 mm, and 15 mm, or 10 mm widths.

I have used the Veritas Large Shoulder Plane, and as a furniture shoulder cleaning tool I find it to large, however it is useful for cleaning rebates. I prefer a 1/2" shoulder plane for furniture shoulders.

Looking at Sauer and Steiner photos he keeps the sole as one. Once the plane is assembled he cuts the mouth. It make assembly easier as you only have 3 parts not 4, and you can cut out a supper fine mouth.

IanW

Having used as Veritas shoulder plane, I have found that the adjustable mouth is set once and never changed. So I agree with you that its not worth it for first time out. I also think that without CNC metal milling and lathe tools, making an adjustable mouth is not possible to do well.

I am tossing about using brass, I like the look of steel, and as you say brass is soft. A fellow student, bought an old brass shoulder plane, it is badly worn, and is way out of square.

Question

What is the traditional purpose of the edge bevels for a shoulder plane? HNT Gordon and Bridge City do not have them and the shoulder plane works just fine.

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

......I am tossing about using brass, I like the look of steel, and as you say brass is soft. A fellow student, bought an old brass shoulder plane, it is badly worn, and is way out of square.

TS - Steel is quite easy to work, too, as opposed to the 280 brass I used. I cannot get 260 here in Brisbane. If anyone knows where you can buy small (plane-making) sizes I would be pleased to hear. I have searched several times, but haven't been able to find any available in sheet sizes I could manage...

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

What is the traditional purpose of the edge bevels for a shoulder plane? HNT Gordon and Bridge City do not have them and the shoulder plane works just fine.

You mean the bevels on the edge of the blade? No idea, unless they are there to make adjustment of the blade to the exact width of the plane a bit easier. Otherwise, just decoration?


Cheers,

Helmut

It may be worth your time having a chat with Terry O'Loughlin at the ACT Woodcraft Guild. He has made quite a few planes and won some awards from Australian Wood Review and the Canberra WWW Show. Contact details

Woodcraft Guild of the ACT

Feel free to mention that I sent you his way.

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

It is a process to design a set of shoulder planes that I intend to use.

According to widths, I may end up making 25 mm or 20 mm, and 15 mm, or 10 mm widths.

I have used the Veritas Large Shoulder Plane, and as a furniture shoulder cleaning tool I find it to large, however it is useful for cleaning rebates. I prefer a 1/2" shoulder plane for furniture shoulders.

Of the shoulder planes I use, the 1/2" (Lie Nielsen small) and 11/16" (Veritas Medium) get the most use -- the 1/4" is very useful for some jobs and the LN Large is most useful for tasks other than adjusting tenon shoulders.

Looking at Sauer and Steiner photos he keeps the sole as one. Once the plane is assembled he cuts the mouth. It make assembly easier as you only have 3 parts not 4, and you can cut out a supper fine mouth.

my apologies, I took your drawing to be a design sketch, and commented accordingly.

Question

What is the traditional purpose of the edge bevels for a shoulder plane? HNT Gordon and Bridge City do not have them and the shoulder plane works just fine.

Traditionally the blade on a shoulder plane is slightly wider than the plane body. The edge bevels function similarly to the edge bevels on a dovetail chisel allowing you to get right into the bottom corner of a groove or shoulder.
Without them there is significant risk that when cutting a rebate the inside wall will slope inwards.