Thread: Iron vs timber hand planes?

Originally Posted by IanW

I think there are sound reasons why low & ultra-low angle planes didn't exist before metal bodies became common. What Derek is getting at, I think, is that wood just doesn't have the structural properties to support a low-angle blade. That long, thin wedge under the cutting edge of a low-angle plane is subjected to considerable static load from the wedge or lever-cap, and is also going to cop some dynamic loading in use. Hitting a knot in full stroke could be the last straw for your elegant little woodie, but in any case, the extra elasticity of a wooden blade-support won't be conducive to good action, I fear.

Blog: Wooden Mitre Planes - John Green c. 1800

Joel's Blog at Tools for Working Wood - Wooden Mitre Planes - John Green c. 1800

Well spotted Paul, but Joel in his blog does point out that although these low-angle BU planes in wood have existed they are rare.

I guess that supports Derek and Ian's asssertions that such wooden planes do face technical contstraints and are probably not sufficiently robust to use carelessly.

Regards
Paul

Anything low angle I have is steel. That's because we just bought what the tradsmen used and didn't think about it much. Only recently have I had the chance to use the Veritas DX60. I have to get one!! Even a chimp could do fine work with one of these. ( I have a very close relation that is a damn fine chimp ) I had it for 6 weeks, it was hell going back to my Stanley.

Hmmm - looks like I should have fudged my original post more than I did - there is nothing new under the sun, & I ought to know that well enough by now!

As a slight saving grace, the blogger does agree with what I think:
"There is a fundamental problem with bevel up wooden planes which is that the wood under the iron that forms the bed is very thin and can easily wear, break off, or bulge with wedge pressure ruining the accuracy of the plane...."
and ".... The planes today are very rare and certainly as a design they reflected a dead end."

While Philly is making modern versions , note that he has opted for a much higher bed angle (looks like at least 35 degrees, or more) than the 20 degrees of the old wooden mitre. Which brings me back to my theory that the really important feature of these tools is a hefty blade carefully fitted to a solid base.

So there's only one way to find out what the limitations of a wooden body are - someone has to make a few low angle woodies from diferent woods & put them to a bit of vigorous testing......

Cheers (& may 2013 bring you all lots of wood in some form or other ),

I think you just found your next project Ian.

Jack Nicholson, in " The Bucket List " said ".....never let good wood go to waste " or something like that.

Sorry chaps, I've been on the road and haven't been able to start experimenting. I've found a likely blade online and just have to wait for it to arrive.

I'm happy to see someone else blaze a trail though.

Thanks John and Paul for posting those links, very interesting.

Happy New Year
Matt

Originally Posted by IanW

So there's only one way to find out what the limitations of a wooden body are - someone has to make a few low angle woodies from diferent woods & put them to a bit of vigorous testing......

Hmmm... I might have something of interest on this one. Will contact you.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by IanW

Cheers (& may 2013 bring you all lots of wood in some form or other ),

.

Regards
Paul

I wasn't contradicting you Ian - reinforcing if anything - just trying to add to the story.

Is it Joel's article or elsewhere that I read that the metal low-angle planes came along first, and then the wooden versions as the affordable K-mart versions? Massive price difference that he notes there!

(I've been looking at the 1912/18 Disston catalogues ... #12 = $20, D23=D100=$18, #7=$10, Jackson = $5 ... if I lived back then I might never have owned a really nice saw!)

I went out to look at the neglected japanese planes I have. I got one long one early on and spent a lot of time with it in the beginning ... then got some more quite cheaply and have never yet really made it back to them. I was thinking they were bedded at a lower angle than they actually are ... about 45^o I'd say without measuring.

BUT ... it occurred to me that the japanese way of shaping the sole with the two or three landing areas might be partly related to helping the longevity of the lower end of the bed - even at 45^o - and that it might help in some way towards creating a low-angle woodie ... although I'm not sure how the pushing vs pulling usage would effect this.

Cheers,
Paul.

Originally Posted by Ball Peen

Only recently have I had the chance to use the Veritas DX60..... I had it for 6 weeks, it was hell going back to my Stanley.

You had the use of a DX60 and you gave it back...

Cheers, Vann

Ball Peen

I'm with Vann on this . I wasn't familiar with the Veritas DX60 plane and had to look it up.

Wow! That is one sexy looking animal. I'd have to hold that very carefully if I wasn't going to attract some scathing looks.

IanW

How close do you think you can get to that in wood? Bulked up a bit perhaps? I think it would have to be physically larger and not quite such an extreme angle. I'm excited .

Olas! Olas! Where's Olas?

Have a gander at what you've started. One simple, unassuming, little question and look where it's going. Forumites are leaving their workbenches in droves, fumbling with their calculators, researching the web for precedence, mentally sharpening the design cavities of the brain and signing up for mission impossible in a frenzy not seen since the Great War.

I love it . Let 2013 commence .

Regards
Paul

Paul,
I have been hearing about the DX60 for awhile on different forums. I thought it was just hype, how good can be? No owner work to do, just sharpen and do fine work. The grub screws either side of the cutter keep the cutting edge paraell to the mouth. I have also been hearing about the new gen. spokeshaves as well. I dragged the chain because I haven't bought handtools in years. I think the NX60 is essentially the same tool.

Why No Low Angle Wooden Jack Planes?

Originally Posted by Ball Peen

Paul,
I have been hearing about the DX60 for awhile on different forums. I thought it was just hype, how good can be? No owner work to do, just sharpen and do fine work. The grub screws either side of the cutter keep the cutting edge paraell to the mouth. I have also been hearing about the new gen. spokeshaves as well. I dragged the chain because I haven't bought handtools in years. I think the NX60 is essentially the same tool.

Hi Bill

I completed as review of these block planes, which includes a comparison with a few others ...

Back to Tool Reviews

Regards from Ottawa

Derek