Thread: I've been gambling.....

Did I say I was done? Well, I spotted a collection of saws and couldn't help myself. I had my eye on these three saws.....

30AUDSawsFeb24.jpg

1. Edward Preston panel saw

EdwardPrestonHS1.jpg EdwardPrestonHS2.jpg. PrestonHS-teethnib.jpg PrestonHS-plate.jpg
I need to make a new handle for this one. I bought it because I saw the large teeth and thought it might be a good rough cutting saw.
I forgot to measure this, but I'm guessing it's around 24" long. I couldn't find much about online this saw online. It has a the Edward Preston logo on the saw plate (hard to see in the photo), and a "Trade Mark Lynx" medallion. Also, what's going on with the teeth in photo 4?

2. W. Tyzack Sons & Turner backsaw

TyzackWS-BS1.jpg. TyzackWS-BS2.jpg
I've found a few Tyzack backsaws around. This one has a warranted superior medallion. The back is out of place, but the plate and back are nice and straight. Teeth aren't too bad so this will be sharpened and be a good user!


3. Henry Disston backsaw

HDisstonWS-BS1.jpg HDisstonWS-BS2.jpg HDisstonWS-BS3.jpg

I seem to find a few of these around, but I'm yet to find one with a straight plate and even teeth. This one is particularly bad; the teeth and set are all over the place! The set is so bad that you can see the plate is pinched all along the tooth line. I'm hoping jointing it will take most of this away, but it might be wishful thinking.

The drill (Millers Fall No.2) has been placed in a pile with my other drills. I might or might not get to it!

Ok Johknee

Interesting pickup and I am now wearing my charlatan hat again as I know very little about British saws, but having been taught to read at an early age I cn recount what I have found in Simon Barley's excellent book.

It would appear that there were a number of Preston makers, including Edward Preston, but it is unclear tending to unlikely that any of them made the saws themselves and were more of a large retailer. Simon has a similar stamp to your saw dated 1890 and it measured 80mm in overall It is not clear whether this was on a handsaw or a backsaw. There is a weird tooth line on that saw.

I think I have commented on the Tyzac Turner moniker before so I won't repeat unless it was in another thread.

Disston would normally have used their own Disston medallion on anything stamped "Disston," so I believe that saw has a replacement WS medallion.

Regards
Paul

Johknee,

Great score, love the drill actually,
But that Preston’s saw, has definitely lived an interesting live, especially that Tooth “configuration”
I reckon that was someone trying a little progressive tooth pitch, after spending one or two nights at the local tavern “Talking too all the eggspiets”

Cheers Matt.

Nice pickups JP. Surely the handsaw has "progressive step pitch"! Paul, I have a small dovetail saw with a medallion that has a keystone encircled by a ring of dots but no script. I have always assumed this was a 2nd line Disston. The same for this one?

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Nice pickups JP. Surely the handsaw has "progressive step pitch"! Paul, I have a small dovetail saw with a medallion that has a keystone encircled by a ring of dots but no script. I have always assumed this was a 2nd line Disston. The same for this one?

MA

I have to confess I am unsure.

Normally I would say a saw either stamped or etched with the Disston name would have a medallion that depicted the keystone and the name Disston. The secondary lines of Disston backsaws were names such as Jackson and Davis and it is those saws I might have expected to see sporting the same medallion as on johknee's saw. In later years I may have seen that WS medallion on their Keystone hand saw line as well. I may have a Keystone saw somewhere and, if so, I will check.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Ok Johknee

Interesting pickup and I am now wearing my charlatan hat again as I know very little about British saws, but having been taught to read at an early age I cn recount what I have found in Simon Barley's excellent book.

It would appear that there were a number of Preston makers, including Edward Preston, but it is unclear tending to unlikely that any of them made the saws themselves and were more of a large retailer. Simon has a similar stamp to your saw dated 1890 and it measured 80mm in overall It is not clear whether this was on a handsaw or a backsaw. There is a weird tooth line on that saw.

I think I have commented on the Tyzac Turner moniker before so I won't repeat unless it was in another thread.

Disston would normally have used their own Disston medallion on anything stamped "Disston," so I believe that saw has a replacement WS medallion.

Regards
Paul

Thanks for the info, Paul. I reckon you're right! Like I said, I could not find any info on the saw, but I did find an image online of this "Geo P Preston" with the Lynx mark.

Geo Preston Lynx.jpeg

I'm not sure what the story is with the tooth line on the Preston. I thought it might be, as Mountain Ash has suggested, progressive pitch?

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Johknee,

Great score, love the drill actually,
But that Preston’s saw, has definitely lived an interesting live, especially that Tooth “configuration”
I reckon that was someone trying a little progressive tooth pitch, after spending one or two nights at the local tavern “Talking too all the eggspiets”

Cheers Matt.

Thanks, Matt.

I think the drill is missing its side handle, like this one here...
millers fall no.2 HD.jpg

I'll need to make one.

Originally Posted by johknee

...I'm not sure what the story is with the tooth line on the Preston. I thought it might be, as Mountain Ash has suggested, progressive pitch?

Well, sorta....
All the progressive pitch saws I've seen have the teeth tips in line, and the pitch stepped up in stages over the length of the saw. I have never seen anything like your Preston before, with a short section of smaller teeth standing proud of the rest of the teeth like that. I can't imagine anyone getting the teeth so far out of line by careless sharpening.

I'd say some owner did that for a specific reason (though I have no idea what it might have been), I can't imagine anyone getting the teeth so far out of line simply by careless sharpening.

Cheers,

Not saying this is the reason, but with step like that, you will struggle to pull back too far. Counter nib?

Originally Posted by johknee

Did I say I was done? Well, I spotted a collection of saws and couldn't help myself. I had my eye on these three saws.....



1. Edward Preston panel saw

EdwardPrestonHS2.jpg. PrestonHS-teethnib.jpg PrestonHS-plate.jpg
I need to make a new handle for this one. I bought it because I saw the large teeth and thought it might be a good rough cutting saw.
I forgot to measure this, but I'm guessing it's around 24" long. I couldn't find much about online this saw online. It has a the Edward Preston logo on the saw plate (hard to see in the photo), and a "Trade Mark Lynx" medallion. Also, what's going on with the teeth in photo 4?

Johknee

I am reasonably certain that this saw was made by one of the Garlick families for two reasons. They made saws for several dealers and ironmongers, according to Simon Barley and secondly their trademark was the very same lynx. In fact, it is still used today in the Thomas Flynn saws.

A progressive tooth saw usually had the fine teeth for the first couple of inches, then an intermediate tooth with the bulk of the saw being that stamped on the heel. Your saw looks to have very large teeth: Perhaps 4½ppi? That would usually make the teeth at the toes 5½ppi if that was the case. It looks to me as if the main teeth have been sharpened and those first progressive teeth left unsharpened or only sharpened very lightly and deliberately done that way.

I have no idea why.

Also, it looks as though the teeth are filed crosscut. It may have been a docking saw, if I have the tooth count correct, as they were nearly always 4½ppi. Could you measure up the points per inch?

Regards
Paul

Hi JP. Starting the resto on this one today. S+J Leapfrog 10" blade currently 16 ppi but blade will need complete reset teethwise (anyone notice the missing section). Handle nice fit to my hand and I love the lambs tongue. Pretty sure over 100 years old

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

That is a nice lamb's tongue handle, MA! The teeth look like they've been removed cleanly, almost looks like they were clipped with pliers or something!

The saw looks like it's in good condition underneath the rust, so should come up nice. Look forward to seeing the end result!

Found the etch. Polished up the brass and cleaned up the handle. I was going to grind all the teeth off, but I think I will resurrect things over time and multiple sharpenings.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

.... I think I will resurrect things over time and multiple sharpenings.....

You got a bit of resurrecting to do on that lot, MA! I'd venture that's the result of a very raw amateur having their first go at a crosscut. I think my first attempt looked somewhat similar....

If the tooth spacings are even, I'd 'top' them back 'til the cows meet the calves which will preserve enough of the existing gullets as a guide to re-form them, but if they re all over the shop it may be just as easy to take them all off & start over. Skilled sharpeners are able to correct spacing by eye as they go along, but I'm a long way from being that skilled.

Just a thought about those missing teeth - I wonder if that's the result of our would-be sharpener trying to set them & either grossly over-doing it & snapping them at the roots, or (nasty thought) has the plate become embrittled & this is what's going to happen when you try to set it? I would hope the former explanation is the reason, but the latter is common enough & I've struck a couple of saws in my time that were too brittle to set. In any case, what I'd do to settle the matter would be to form a few full teeth at the very end of the heel & try setting them.

The very little I can find on the 53 does not mention anything about hardness. Here's what Simon Barley had to say about some S&J saws, including the 53, on Backsaw.net:

"Maybe I can help, with the aid of the Hawley collection's information. The S&J catalogue for 1880 (the earliest that the Hawley Collection possesses) has three qualities of backsaw: the 26 is the brass back, the 26A with a "blued or bright" back [presumably iron]. and the 26B the German steel; I've never seen either the 26A or 26B, but would be interested if anyone here can come up with a picture of one. By 1910 [there's a gap of 30 years in the collection] the numbering was 266, 263 and 260 for the same three qualities, except that the second and third were described as ""bright steel" and "blued steel" respectively; this catalogue states that these numbers are new, with the "old" ones being 260A, 260 and 260 [sic]. The 52, 46 and 49 are there, with these numbers apparently taking over from the old numbers 26A, 26 and 26. Again, I've not seen any of these numbers. By 1927 the best quality were still 260 etc ("Mermaid"), with the second ("Leapfrog") being the 46 and 52 series (with variations). In 1932 the best quality were renamed "Spearior", with the 260 numbers. From the 1920s they also made several inferior qualities with their own numberings, including the number 53, which came in in 1932, as their 3rd quality ("Lloyd Davies") brand.
In summary, then, it seems that the 52 came in sometime between 1880 and 1910; the other thing to say is that researching S&J's vast output is a nightmare! "

Cheers,
Ian