Thread: I've been gambling.....

Hi Ian, thanks for the response. I was a bit hesitant using the 2nd cut for retoothing, for no other reason than trying to get the maximum life out of the files.

But good to know that I don't need to get another type of file. Gasweld doesn't seem to sell individual unhandled file anymore - only in a lot of 10.

Cheers,
Andy

Andy

Unlike most files which come in three levels of coarseness or fineness (smooth, 2nd cut and bastard), whichever way you wish to view it, tapered saw files seem to give a choice of one. Tooth coarseness is dependent on degree of taper primarily, but also length of file. There used to be a vast range of file sizes across the four tapers (regular, slim, extra slim and double extra slim) and maybe there still are in theory, but in practice not all sizes are easily available.

What is slightly different is that some files are single cut and some are double cut. I expect some people have a preference for single cut for saw filing, but I have to say I take whatever I can get. Gentle, smooth filing will help the file last longer and probably be less fatiguing on the operator.

As files decrease in size and taper the corners are sharper and this suits small saw teeth. A "fat" file will give a large gullet and a comparatively small tooth, which becomes weak both for setting and in use.

Regards
Paul

Hi AB. I have had a bit of luck purchasing files from a " local" industrial supplies store. I have had no dramas with my pack of 10 Bahcos from Gasweld but like you, was looking for an individual price. AA Industrial sold Pferd files and they seem to be better than the Bahcos (and came in smaller sizes). You must have some areas in Brisbane that serve the needs for manufacturing/light industrial?

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

.....AA Industrial sold Pferd files and they seem to be better than the Bahcos (and came in smaller sizes)....

MA, be cautious about basing recommendations on a single batch of files! When I was casting about for reliable files I bought some Pferds & found them quite ok, so bought another batch and they were rubbish! That has been my experience with Bahcos as as well - hit & miss. It seems like price is the only concern these days and quality control is literally all over the shop.

And as Paul said, it's as matter of pot luck if you want specific sizes, particularly in the smaller files we want for backsaws; they seem to come & go from the on-line catalogues. The brutal reality is that files are not being bought in quantity any more, by people who could make enough fuss about the quality that the manufacturers will heed them.

So far (& my fingers are crossed as I type this!) the 'Glardon' needle files from AJS have been good, & these are my preferred weapon for anything of 15tpi or finer. However, I've had a couple in my last batch that seemed to wear much faster than I expected - I hope that was just an illusion because I haven't been doing a lot of saw filing lately & tend to lose track of how often each file has been used - easy to do when you have 6 or 7 sizes on the go at any one time.

Saws are hard on files, to be sure, but I've been using files for a very long time & it's not just old-bloke nostalgia when I say they "ain't what they uster be" - the occasional batch of NOS I've got my hands on reinforces that opinion. A couple of years ago I got hold of some unused old 10" Wiltshires that would've been made in the 60s or 70s (& here in Oz, if you believe the stamp!). They outlasted equivalent new P&Ns by a factor of 3, at least. The new P&Ns are not stamped with the maker's name like they were until a few years ago, the brand is screen-printed on them. Brett (Fence Furniture) observed years ago that this is a sure indication that they come from some factory in a low-rent part of the manufacturing world that has put in the lowest bid for more than one 'brand'....

Cheers,

More pictures, but definitely the last "new for me" saws. I've got a lot of work to do!

Spearior - this looks like it will clean up nice.
IMG_1875.jpg

Henry Boker - plate has some pitting, but should still be a good user
IMG_1876 (1).jpg

This mark, I've never heard of before - Columbian Warranted. A bit of work to be done, but should be okay. This could be a good candidate for my first attempt at replacing a handle!
IMG_1881 (1).jpg IMG_1882.jpg

Then these three:a Tyzack 12" backsaw, a W Tyzack and Sons and Turner No.120 and a Taylor Brothers 14" backsaw
IMG_1890 (1).jpg


IMG_1894 (1).jpg IMG_1895 (1).jpg IMG_1896 (1).jpg
The saw plate for this one is not too bad, BUT is it worn down? There isn't a medallion on the handle either, does this mean it's an old-old saw?

IMG_1897 (1).jpg


IMG_1892 (1).jpg IMG_1893 (1).jpg
The saw plate for this brass back is well and truly pitted. Back and handle are salvageable, so I will see how the plate comes up.

IMG_1891 (1).jpg
I'm guessing this Taylor Brothers is fairly new/modern, compared to the others. Should be good after a sharpen.
Anyway, enough showing-off. Time to get to work!

Originally Posted by IanW

A couple of years ago I got hold of some unused old 10" Wiltshires that would've been made in the 60s or 70s (& here in Oz, if you believe the stamp!). They outlasted equivalent new P&Ns by a factor of 3, at least. The new P&Ns are not stamped with the maker's name like they were until a few years ago, the brand is screen-printed on them. Brett (Fence Furniture) observed years ago that this is a sure indication that they come from some factory in a low-rent part of the manufacturing world that has put in the lowest bid for more than one 'brand'....

Cheers,

Ian

Wiltshire files are probably the best I have come across. I have a few but not in small sizes. Tome Fetiera from Portugal are one of the last old school manufacturers and I think they manufacture for Bacho. However they may not be their only supplier and that could account for variability. Some of the low rent manufacturers just produce a product that resembles a file as we know!

Regards
Paul

The Tyzack Sons and Turner No.120 might benefit from a rescue similar to this Disston.
The saw plate has been taken from the back and re-inserted upside down.
New teeth cut and away you go.
Here:

Disston.jpg

Originally Posted by johknee

This mark, I've never heard of before - Columbian Warranted. A bit of work to be done, but should be okay. This could be a good candidate for my first attempt at replacing a handle!
IMG_1881 (1).jpg IMG_1882.jpg

Johknee

Have a look at post #5 in this thread:

columbia saw works (woodworkforums.com)

Columbia was the name for a hardware store in America. The big question is who out of the major saw manufacturers produced it?

Regards
Paul

Johknee

I don't have Simon barley's book with me at the moment, but in the last lot of saws you posted, the Tyzack family had a number of branches. The 12"Tyzack backsaw is certainly older because of the split nuts and is probably at least pre WW1. It probably has lost some depth from multiple sharpening's but should still be good.

The brass backed Tyzack & Turner plate does look ordinary but see how it comes up This is from a 1950 catalogue:



W Tyzack and Sons and Turner No.120. 1950 catalogue.jpg


but yours is missing the return ahead of the top horn and is more like the version in the 1965 catalogue;
W Tyzack and Sons and Turner No.120. 1965 catalogue..PNG

The 120 was top of the line for back saws.

The henry Boker saw is a little difficult to determine. The family was German based, but a branch headed off to America and as far as I can make out made saws there under the same name. Your saw is most likely American as the European branch was more likely to be making frame saws.

Regards
Paul

Thanks Paul, good reminder on gentle and smooth filing. I tend to be heavy handed after a while in the hope of getting the job done "quicker" - usually with the exact opposite consequence.

Thanks for the info MA. Will look around after I've exhausted my current stock.

Originally Posted by johknee

Then these three:a Tyzack 12" backsaw, a W Tyzack and Sons and Turner No.120 and a Taylor Brothers 14" backsaw
IMG_1890 (1).jpg

A nice collection of backsaws there johknee.

Cheers,
Andy

Hi Ian. Maybe I got a bit carried away....... JK I can see a nice collection building. Paul, it looks like Tyzack kept a tradtional handle for longer than most.

Originally Posted by Scribbly Gum

The Tyzack Sons and Turner No.120 might benefit from a rescue similar to this Disston.
The saw plate has been taken from the back and re-inserted upside down.
New teeth cut and away you go.
Here:

Disston.jpg

Ha! I would never have though to do this. Clever. Thank you, Tom!

Edit: I just found this one on eBay. The seller is suggesting they're 'hanging' holes!

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Johknee

Have a look at post #5 in this thread:

columbia saw works (woodworkforums.com)

Columbia was the name for a hardware store in America. The big question is who out of the major saw manufacturers produced it?

Regards
Paul

Thanks, Paul. I tried searching online but couldn't find much at all.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Johknee

I don't have Simon barley's book with me at the moment, but in the last lot of saws you posted, the Tyzack family had a number of branches. The 12"Tyzack backsaw is certainly older because of the split nuts and is probably at least pre WW1. It probably has lost some depth from multiple sharpening's but should still be good.

The brass backed Tyzack & Turner plate does look ordinary but see how it comes up This is from a 1950 catalogue:



W Tyzack and Sons and Turner No.120. 1950 catalogue.jpg


but yours is missing the return ahead of the top horn and is more like the version in the 1965 catalogue;
W Tyzack and Sons and Turner No.120. 1965 catalogue..PNG

The 120 was top of the line for back saws.

The henry Boker saw is a little difficult to determine. The family was German based, but a branch headed off to America and as far as I can make out made saws there under the same name. Your saw is most likely American as the European branch was more likely to be making frame saws.

Regards
Paul

Yeah, the Tyzack brass back looks like the saw in the '65 catalogue. Those saws have three saw bolts with the top bolt surrounded by a rubber washer w/ "Tyzack" printed on the rubber. My saw has the same, although the washer has split. The saws in the 1950 catalogue look like they had a medallion.
It's a nice saw. I've been loving the saw handles with the lambs tongue and spotted it in a box full of saws, so thought it might be worth saving. Here's a 120 in better condition. Looks to be the same as mine...

Screen Shot 2022-10-13 at 11.34.12 am.jpg

On the lookout for saw files now to get started on sharpening...