Thread: I've been gambling.....

Two lovely saws.
They should serve well.
The Ward and Payne is quite uncommon I think
Tom

Originally Posted by Scribbly Gum

......The Ward and Payne is quite uncommon I think.....

Certainly are round my neck of the woods...

Both saws are from the "good" era, so if the plates clean up well, you will have scored two excellent saws. Much more satisfying than playing the pokies, eh? ....

Cheers,

Looking forward to seeing how they clean up.

Originally Posted by IanW

Certainly are round my neck of the woods...

Both saws are from the "good" era, so if the plates clean up well, you will have scored two excellent saws. Much more satisfying than playing the pokies, eh? ....

Cheers,

True, a lot more fun than poker machines, but just as addictive!

Originally Posted by johknee

true, a lot more fun than poker machines, but just as addictive! :u

:d :d :d :d

Another saw. This is a 12" Warranted Superior with a lot of rust! I think it can be brought back to life.
IMG_1798.jpg
Well, at least, the medallion says "Warranted Superior"
IMG_1801.jpg

I gave it a quick clean and found these marks on the back. Are the medallion and saw back mismatched?

IMG_1800.jpg

I think you've got your work cut out "restoring" that blade Jk., it looks like it's very deeply pitted. However, even a very pitted blade can work, I've discovered, but they tend to look a bit mankey.

Slack Sellars is a respected brand, it's far less common in Oz than Disston or Spear & Jackson, but from what I've read, they were in the same league. As I understand it, the "warranted superior" medallions were often used on second-tier saws in place of the company's branded medallions. However, it doesn't make sense to me to use a "generic" medallion & put your name on the spine? I'll let Paul do the explaining on this matter....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

I think you've got your work cut out "restoring" that blade Jk., it looks like it's very deeply pitted. However, even a very pitted blade can work, I've discovered, but they tend to look a bit mankey.

Slack Sellars is a respected brand, it's far less common in Oz than Disston or Spear & Jackson, but from what I've read, they were in the same league. As I understand it, the "warranted superior" medallions were often used on second-tier saws in place of the company's branded medallions. However, it doesn't make sense to me to use a "generic" medallion & put your name on the spine? I'll let Paul do the explaining on this matter....

Cheers,

If the hand tool industry was anything like the rifle making industry of the era it was common for lower priced items to be made by the trade and marked with the sellers brand for retail. Several of the British rifle brands operated like this. That would explain the generic medallion. A lot of the early Swedish chisel makers sourced their handles from a handle manufacturer whic explains why they all look similar....and good!

You see the same thing happening today with a lot of the private label items coming out of China. Online retailers here will find a factory in China that already manufactures an item and have their own brand stamped on it before shipping to sell locally.

The Luban and Wood River line of planes and chisels look like they were made in the same factory as well.

Sorry for the ramble. Back on topic.

Hi JK. At least the Warranted Superior medalliin is the English one (USA ones have the eagle). IanW, I thought that it was only the American habit to put WS medallions on 2nd tier saws. Slack Sellars do have quite nice medallions.

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

..... Slack Sellars do have quite nice medallions.

Indeed they do, MA. I had a very nice example, probably from the 50s, and the raised medallion was the first thing that caught my eye - they meant it to be seen! It came to me gratis, an old friend & colleague (now deceased, sadly), was a prominent member of the local Men's Shed & apparently they were often gifted tools by offspring & widows who don't know what to do with dad's/hubby's "junk". The group at this shed don't care for tools that don't have tails, so the S-S was headed for landfill before my friend realigned its course.

Previously, he'd passed me another saw that was about to experience the same fate - a rather beaten-up Disston D8 progressive (5-3tpi) ripsaw. It cleaned up ok & now has a permanent place in my tool cupboard:
Diss 5-3 prog rip.jpg

The "dings" look alarming in this pic, but they are not anywhere as bad as they look - they are just very shallow depressions shown up by sanding the blade; a few years down the track the shiny parts have mellowed & it looks way better. I'd say they are the result of a slightly too-enthusiastic re-tensioning effort. The saw has good tension & "sings" a lovely song in full cry, so the somewhat brutal treatment either fixed a problem or did no harm. It's done some pretty heavy work for me...

Cheers,

Originally Posted by johknee

....and took a punt on some cheap saws from Marketplace.

Here are the first two. Top is a 10" Disston & Sons, bottom is a 14" David Ward & Sons

IMG_1794 (1).jpg

IMG_1796 (1).jpg
IMG_1795 (1).jpg
IMG_1797 (1).jpg

I plan to clean these up and sharpen for use. I'm pretty excited to see if I can manage to get them into shape!

johknee

Disston used a large number of different medallions. particularly in their early years and this helps us identify the era. Your Disston, which is very likely a No.4, dates 1896 - 1917. To my mind it is the first of the modern look medallions with the rounded perimiter as opposed to the prvious style of sunken medallion. The clue to dating is in the word "Philada" being an abbreviation of Philadelphia.

The Ward saw is, as Scribbly Gum has said, more uncommon and quite likely older: A litle mre interesting and intriguing because of the scarcity aspect. I also particularly like the lambs tongue handle, but that is just my preference. it will be interesing to seehow they clean up.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by johknee

Another saw. This is a 12" Warranted Superior with a lot of rust! I think it can be brought back to life.
IMG_1798.jpg
Well, at least, the medallion says "Warranted Superior"
IMG_1801.jpg

I gave it a quick clean and found these marks on the back. Are the medallion and saw back mismatched?

IMG_1800.jpg

johknee

The British saws are not really my strength and I have only one Slack sellars backsaw (14") to which I can compare. Interestingly, it has three saw screws and has no medallion at all despite having a brass back (they were normally a more expensive version of the model where both brass and steel were offered) so it would appear that Slack sellars were not big on this aspect of medallions and this may explain why the medallion does not have the SS name on it, but I stress my exposure to the brand is very limited.

Having said all that, the WS medallion on your saw looks to be a quality level above the norm being raised with what looks to be fine definition. Ian is correct when he says the WS medallions were used on second tier saws, but that is more true of American saws than the British counterparts where the distinction is not so clear or is very clear. If that sounds confusing, it is! For example in your first post the David Ward company had no less than six tiers of quality. The branded Ward saw was top of the line, but there was Napier (2nd quality); Payne & Co (3rd quality); J Worthy (4th quality); Alexandria (5th quality); J Hillsboro (6th quality). All information there sourced from Simon Barley's book "British Saws and Sawmakers from c1660"

Ian is right that the level of pitting on the saw plate means it is never going to be a show pony, but it could still become a satisfactory "user" saw. The tooth line will be the critical part and because you will file the face of the tooth you will be able to reveal "clean" metal. The rest of the plate should just be made as smooth as possible. A touch more set may be required, but probably not much more. I would start sanding with 120g W & D and quick go to 240g as soon as posible.

Regards
Paul

Thank you for your reply, Paul. The history of thes saws is fascinating. It seems I may have been a little optimistic about the WS saw, but I'll post an update when I've cleaned the saw plate. Fingers crossed, I hope it'll be a "user".

I have three saws to work on with another two on the way. I think I'm done with accumulating backsaws for now...

Originally Posted by johknee

I think I'm done with accumulating backsaws for now...

Sure, sure.