Jewellers' saw blades

**IanW** · 14th September 2021, 05:47 PM

For the last couple of years, it has become increasingly difficult to buy good-quality jewellers’ saw blades in the coarser sizes. The choice got narrower & narrower until lately I could find nothing more robust than #2 in any of the “better” brands. So I was very pleased when recently I was able to buy some Glardon #4s, which is the minimum size I like to work with. Glardon has always been my yardstick in jewellers’ saw blades, they outlasted any other brand I tried; a couple, like ‘Super Pike’ & “Eberle” were very good, but the Glardons always seemed a nose in front.

The blades arrived a couple of weeks ago and I got to work on a small project that had been held up waiting for some blades. You can imagine my surprise when the first Glardon blade I tried went about 5mm into some 3mm 304 stainless steel & started jamming & refusing to cut any further. Now SS is a severe test for any blade for sure, but the last lot of Glardons I had (#5) would have cut 70mm or more in the same material & still had some life left in them. I thought it must’ve been a freak that managed to slip through QC without proper heat treatment, so I grabbed a new blade from the pack. Same result!

I called the supplier & had a long chat with a very helpful person (who is a jeweller but said she only used the fine blades & almost never uses the coarser types). I suggested that maybe some storeman had accidently put some “budget” blades in the wrong drawer or something? She didn’t think that likely, but kindly offered to replace the blades I bought with blades from a fresh box. We also discussed other ‘premium’ brands & as a result I bought a couple of bundles of “Antelope” (German) & Crocodile (Swiss) blades to try. They had #6’s in both brands, which is a useful size for cutting out plane parts.

A couple of days ago, the replacement Glardons and the other two brands arrived & I was very keen to give them a go. I thought rather than just cutting up scraps & wasting blades (not to mention unnecessary wear & tear on my sawing arm!), I may as well make something, so I had a scuffle through my scraps tray to see what was there. There wasn’t much, I really am getting to the point where they are “just scraps” :
1 Scraps.jpg

I couldn’t manage even the smallest plane I’ve made so far with those forlorn little bits, but then I had a brainwave – I’d have a go at making a small “violin plane”, something along the lines of this , only fabricated & not cast. The longest dimension of the brass scraps was about 45mm, so I sketched out a plan & elevation for a plane of that length for a 19mm blade & went at it. I have no experience with these sorts of planes so I wasn’t at all sure what I was doing. I was also working in a hurry & concentrating on testing the blades, so not surprisingly, I made a few blunders!

I’m sorry to report that the replacement Glardon blades were no better than the previous lot. I started cutting the waste from the dovetail sockets and it took a new blade for every socket (none of which is >6mm long). I used afresh blade to cut out the brass sides & it did manage that tolerably well, but it was getting tired by the time I finished cutting out those two tiny sides. Eventually I got the sides fitted to the sole & was quite pleased with the fit – straight sides are just so much easier than curved sides!

To cut out the mouth I tried an “Antelope” which cut for about 30mm before giving up:
2a.jpg

Not up to the standard of the “good” Glardons of old, but usable.

The “Crocodile” brand was no better than the Glardons, perhaps a little bit worse, but certainly not up to handling SS in a tolerable way. The first blade only made it halfway to the finish:
3a.jpg

And a second blade finally got me home:
4a.jpg

From this point I made more blunders than I have ever made on any plane! I started by beginning to file the mouth from the wrong side, but managed to recover from that & the body went together pleasingly well:

6 assembling.jpg

But then made a dog’s breakfast of the first lever-cap, & had to repeat that, & as an encore I made the first thumbscrew 2-3mm too short & had to remake that!

But eventually, it was ready for a quick test. I put a small camber on the blade because the few videos I’ve watched of people using these little things, they seem to use them like mini scrubs, pulling wood off more across the grain than along it:
8 blade camber.jpg

And it cheerfully peeled off nice thick shavings:
7 shavings.jpg

The smallest plane I’d made prior to this one is 75mm long, so at 45mm the new one is really tiny:
9 minis cf.jpg

But even the larger one is hardly what you’d call a giant: 10.jpg

The ‘violin’ plane isn’t as comfy to hold and I wouldn’t want to use it for a long session, but it’s the sort of tool you’re likely to use for a just a few minutes at a time, which is tolerable.

So I have made another plane, but it’s so little it almost doesn’t qualify as a broken promise.
9.jpg

And before you all dump on me too much (Paul & Matt), take note that I did this with entirely unselfish motives, trying to get this blade business sorted out for your benefit more than mine, since I’m not making any more myself…

Cheers,

**Simplicity** · 14th September 2021, 06:41 PM

Ian,
Thank you for going to such huge(should that be small) effort in making sure us mere mortals know we’re to go Blade hunting.
The depths you will go too [emoji6].

We would never be so low as to remind you of past comments, even if there in print with multiple witnesses.

We’re far lower than that.

Cheers Matt.

**Cklett** · 14th September 2021, 08:08 PM

Well, you stayed partly true to yourself. As far as I can see it is not an other infill. I can't see any wood on it. So maybe just call it a mini blade holder [emoji3]

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**Chief Tiff** · 14th September 2021, 08:34 PM

That’s smaller than The Nuke! I had no real success on 304SS with jewellers blades; I don’t think I managed one pin before giving up and grabbing a normal 24 tpi hacksaw. At some point I still intend to make a copy of a Stanley 69 in brass so the blades will get a proper trial then.

It’s interesting that although you’ve officially retired from planemaking you are still purchasing planemaking tooling; perhaps your subconscious has other ideas?

**IanW** · 14th September 2021, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

That’s smaller than The Nuke! I had no real success on 304SS with jewellers blades; I don’t think I managed one pin before giving up and grabbing a normal 24 tpi hacksaw. At some point I still intend to make a copy of a Stanley 69 in brass so the blades will get a proper trial then.....

Yeah, Chief, I would have given up on the jewellers' saw quicksmart if I had first tried using these blades. The hacksaw/fillet method (which I used to cut the sockets on my first infill), or drilling a series of holes along the line & knocking the piece out (as I did to make the mouth opening), both work, but they are just so much slower & more tedious than sawing with a good blade, and leave you with a lot more filing to clean things up.
Have I said it before? I hate endless filing!

I predict you will have few problems sawing brass, even with "lesser" blades & they may even go far enough in mild steel to be worthwhile, but as I said, SS sorts the men from the boys very quickly. However, you'll find even in brass the really good blades cut freely & predictably for much longer.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

.......It’s interesting that although you’ve officially retired from planemaking you are still purchasing planemaking tooling; perhaps your subconscious has other ideas?

Who knows? I'm already a serial recidivist, aren't I, so you have every right to disbelieve me (I'm having trouble believing myself

). However, I do use my jewellers' saw for quite a few tasks other than plane-making, so the blades won't go to waste if I manage to stick to my guns....

I'm just hoping that this is just an isolated batch from Glardon & they haven't succumbed to having their "Swiss" blades made under contract for a rock-bottom price in some other country.

Cheers,

**China** · 14th September 2021, 10:52 PM

Although the hardest metal I cut is brass, I have recently tried these Super Q Sawblades 4 ( that heavy but 0/2 etc.)
So far I have had good results, Vallorbe seem to have a QC issues some blades are good some are bad I have pulled one out of a bundle only to find it has no temper, plus another after cutting 1cm of silver the teeth have disappeared.

**IanW** · 15th September 2021, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by China

.... Vallorbe seem to have a QC issues some blades are good some are bad I have pulled one out of a bundle only to find it has no temper, plus another after cutting 1cm of silver the teeth have disappeared.

Hmmm, I was hoping my experience was a one-off, china, and that just a box or two of dud blades got out for some reason, but it seems like it could be more widespread than that.

Don'tcha just hate it when a previously reliable product suddenly takes a quality nose-dive? I used to buy files by the box & blades by the gross since it works out much cheaper & I go through them quickly enough. But files got all over the place quite a few years ago and I'm reluctant to buy more than 3 or 4 of those in a particular size at any one time in case I get crook ones If the supplier had had #6 Glardon blades I would've bought a gross straight up, but 4s were the heaviest gauge they had so I only bought two bundles to finish the job I was doing. Sure glad I didn't order a gross!

I hadn't realised until relatively recently how many brands of saw blades there are out there - surely some are still making decent blades. You can get heavier blades in Super-Pike & Eberle from Europe, but the postage quoted makes that avenue rather unattractive. I might have to grit my teeth & cop the postage if I want some useable heavy blades....

Cheers,

**Bushmiller** · 19th September 2021, 01:36 PM

Ian

I entirely accept that you have retired from plane making and are now heavily into jeweller's blade testing: Consequently the delightful violin plane is a consequence (collateral damage maybe) of your quest.

The real issue, of course, is that your efforts have revealed a slide in quality that appears increasingly endemic rather than an atypical glitch. i am not sure there is a way forward from there.

Regards
Paul

**Simplicity** · 19th September 2021, 04:28 PM

Or we could all just move to the Metal work forum and get heavily involved in EDM, electrical discharge machining , but probably a bit out of the range of my pocket money at present.[emoji6]

Cheers Matt.

**IanW** · 19th September 2021, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

...... a slide in quality that appears increasingly endemic rather than an atypical glitch. i am not sure there is a way forward from there....

I'm afraid you may be right Paul. I fear that Glardon may have joined the race to the bottom, whilst fervently hoping it's just a temporary glitch & they will soon sort it out. A reputation is so easy to lose & so hard to regain. I'm sure most of us would cheerfully pay a little more for consumables like blades to get good quality than throw a lesser amount away on junk that just won't do the job!

There is a way forward, just get back to making high quality stuff. In these days of automation & technical knowledge, it ought to be easy......

Cheers,

**IanW** · 19th September 2021, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Or we could all just move to the Metal work forum and get heavily involved in EDM, electrical discharge machining , but probably a bit out of the range of my pocket money at present......

Matt, if I were ever foolish enough to wish to produce dovetailed infill planes in "commercial" quantities, I reckon I would look around for any way to speed up preparation of parts alright. I just looked up EDM as I'd not heard of it before (at least not by that name) & it sounds like the goods! Let us know when you get your ED machine.

Actually (with decent blades!), cutting out the parts isn't so bad, though making the mouth can be a bit more demanding, especially if fitting a blade-block.. It's the rest of the job that takes most of the time (& energy!)...

Cheers,

**Simplicity** · 19th September 2021, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by IanW

Matt, if I were ever foolish enough to wish to produce dovetailed infill planes in "commercial" quantities, I reckon I would look around for any way to speed up preparation of parts alright. I just looked up EDM as I'd not heard of it before (at least not by that name) & it sounds like the goods! Let us know when you get your ED machine.

Actually (with decent blades!), cutting out the parts isn't so bad, though making the mouth can be a bit more demanding, especially if fitting a blade-block.. It's the rest of the job that takes most of the time (& energy!)...

Cheers,

Ian,
I actually agree, have a glass on me [emoji6], cutting out 98 percent of the waste be it a Dovetails a mouth or what have you goes fairly quickly.
Removing the last 2 percent in my experience takes as long as the first 98 percent.

Cheers Matt.

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**IanW** · 19th September 2021, 07:10 PM

Yep!

**jmk89** · 20th September 2021, 12:37 PM

Ian
I was wondering, since you’ve got a small metal lathe, have you considered using it to mill out the dovetail parts (& even the mouth)?
I’m not being flippant, it just occurred to me that this might be a convenient alternative and reduce the need for saw blades (which seem to be made of unobtainium)!

**IanW** · 20th September 2021, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by jmk89

Ian
I was wondering, since you’ve got a small metal lathe, have you considered using it to mill out the dovetail parts (& even the mouth)?
I’m not being flippant, it just occurred to me that this might be a convenient alternative and reduce the need for saw blades (which seem to be made of unobtainium)!

Jeremy, I can't see how I could use my lathe to cut out dovetail sockets? If I had a milling attachment (which I don't) it would be possible, I suppose, but it would take me an absurd amount of time to set up for a regular-sized plane (or even a tiddler) and my machinist abilities are very limited, so I have a strong suspicion the results would be a good deal worse than my current all-manual method!

I haven't lost hope in obtaining decent blades again - they are available overseas, so it's not as if anyone has stopped making them, & even if the "better companies" are contracting them out to factories in other, cheaper countries, surely they can get the quality up to scratch if they insist on it. Nicholson seems to be getting there (slowly) with its Brazilian- & Mexican-made files, so it must be possible...?

Cheers,

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