Thread: Joinery Saw

Very nice work as always Derek. Where to you buy the brass for the backs?

Nice. There's also an opening for a new thread thread there - an "oh bugger" one.
Cheers,
Jim

Not too shabby for a rank amateur, Derek.

Bummer when accidents like that happen, but it was probably just letting you know that particular bit of material wasn't suitable... At least it happened in the early stages, before you had expended too much energy on it. I think we all quickly learn to do the bolt holes & inletting early in the process, since that's the most fraught operation. Things can still go wrong later, though - I am just finishing off a handle in Bull Oak, atm, which is a nice wood, but inclined to be chippy. A chunk came offf the little decorative blip in front of the horn, as I was cleaning up prior to final sanding - too difficult to glue it back, so I had to modify the design a bit.

I have a couple of questions:
1) How are you deciding on, and achieving desired grip angles?
2) Is there a reason you put the forward bolt through the spine? (I guess the small cheeks didn't leave you much option?) I try to avoid doing that, but if you were to ask me why, I couldn't give you any really valid answer other than that I don't put the spine in place until final assembly, so it would be awkward if a bolt hole went through it. When I started out, I had not seen an old saw with a bolt hole in the spine, but recently I came across an oldie that did. So there doesn't seem to be any rule......

Be careful, you may be contracting sawmakeritis - it's more insidious, & harder to treat than planemakeritis.....

Cheers,

Hi Derek,

Very unlucky. But now you have a matched set with Jarrah from the same board. They look great side by side. Well done.

How does the handle angle compare to the other open handle saws you have and how do you find the saw in use, does it meet your expectations?

Cheers
Pops

Hi Derek,

Very nice, I like the rounded handle look, rather than the faceted look, and the Jarrah looks perfect with the brass. Is that the saw plate and brass back from Mike Wenzloff?

Beautiful work, as Ian says, it's addictive..

Regards
Ray

PS. Bad luck about the Padauk handle, I think Jarrah is nicer anyway.

Destroying handles can be entertaining, once, when I was finishing a handle on the buffing wheel, didn't pay attention, it grabbed, and it was flung into the floor and bounced off the wall, and broke in half... Now I wear a face shield... especially when doing draw knives on the buffing wheel...

Hi Andrew and Ray

The saw plates and brass backs come from Mike Wenzloff. Incredible value!

I have a couple of questions:
1) How are you deciding on, and achieving desired grip angles?
2) Is there a reason you put the forward bolt through the spine? (I guess the small cheeks didn't leave you much option?) I try to avoid doing that, but if you were to ask me why, I couldn't give you any really valid answer other than that I don't put the spine in place until final assembly, so it would be awkward if a bolt hole went through it. When I started out, I had not seen an old saw with a bolt hole in the spine, but recently I came across an oldie that did. So there doesn't seem to be any rule......

Hi Ian

The hang differs between these two saws. As you can see, the hang on the joinery saw is higher. It is the same as that used on all my dovetail saws.

The bolts were placed where (a) I thought that they offered the best support, and (b) were cosmetically similar to the carcase saw.

The fact that one went through the brass does bother me at all - it cannot be seen and it does not negatively affect strength (if anything, it probably increases it).

With regard the shape of the handle, Klaus (Two Lawyers Toolworks) asked the same thing on another forum ..

Hi Derek,

... One thing: the rear line of both of the grips is nearly straight. Maybe you feel that to be comfortable. Then all is good. Perhaps you should try to make a handle in your own shape which has a hump at the rear side of the grip just to compare the comfort. I'm pretty sure that you' d like the different feeling.

Regards
Klaus

Hi Klaus

I have made handles in the past with the hump as well. Here is one example ..



What I have here is something a little different. I suspect that others, such as Andrew Lunn (ex-Eccentric Toolworks), have done similar, although their reasoning may be different from mine.

Here is one of Andrew's dovetail saws ...



My aim is to not only have a comfortable handle, but also to create a controlled grip. The comfort comes from sizing the handle to my palm, and including enough of a "bump" to fit into the palm. It is there but disguised by the second factor, which goes to control.

The second feature is that the handle is triangulated. That is, it is thicker at the base. What this does is support the underside of the hand, and lift it up, where it snuggles into the underside of the horn. The underside of the horn is where the control lies.

Here is a picture of Ernest Joyce using a tenon saw. Note how he uses his thumb on the upper horn to lighten the weight on the saw ...



A while back Chris Schwarz posted something similar. In his case he used the lower horns to do the same thing.

Link: I Found a Use for my Lower Horn | Lost Art Press

That's my theory anyway. I do find the saws very comfortable to use.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Here's my new saw, a Disston D8 style with Bull Oak handle. I was a bit too clever for my own good in deciding to make this handle fancier than my first couple of tries at this style. I should've used a less difficult wood - shaping bull oak is akin to working cast iron! It certainly carves about as well as cast-iron, but fortunately, it responds well to rasps, files & scrapers. As I said before, it's inclined to be a bit chippy, and you may be able to see one small chip that I couldn't diguise. However, I think it was worth the trouble, because this wood finishes to a lovely tactile surface - almost as as good as 'real' Rosewood. This is a very nice handle to hold onto.

WRT the 'hump' in the centre of the back of the grip, I have been mucking about with that for a while. After trying a more exagerated bump, I have settled on a fairly subtle increase in width. What I've found most important for comfort (for me) is balancing the width & thickness of the grip so that I don't have to curl my fingers round it too tightly just to hang on.

This style of saw has been just about my best 'discovery' since I started making saws. It's one of the handiest saws in my kit - dunno how I lived without one for 50 years (bog ignorance, I suppose!).....

Cheers,

That is a lovely saw Ian. I love the whole package. Mine arrived the other day and I'm so pleased with it. Thank you so much.
Kevin

Beautiful work Ian!



You have put a lot of thought into the junction of the plate and handle, especially at the heel. Very stylish!

The handle looks good to my eye, but then I am biased. Do you miss the bump?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

......You have put a lot of thought into the junction of the plate and handle, especially at the heel...

Hi Derek & Kevin - thanks.
Well, folks like yourself & Planemaker have been stamping your own signatures on your handles pretty successfully, so I thought it was about time to overcome my conservative nature & be a bit bolder! This shape grew out of my first try at a D8 copy (pic). That handle was based pretty heavily on the original Disston production (but 'simplified'). It was going to be a one-off, but I have since made a few more, & as I fiddled with the fit of blade & handle, I realised the curves could be used in a more cohesive way.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Do you miss the bump?

Actually, there is a small increase in width in the centre of the grip (which is not obvious in the pic.), before it narrows a bit more toward the top. But it certainly isn't a 'bump', no. As I said, I have been through a cycle of exaggerating the rear curve to the point where it certainly was a bump, but have now retreated to this more gentle curve for this style of handle. By trial & error, I have come up with a combination of width & thickness of the grip, that with the more oval shaping I like, feels very comfy in my hand. It's probably mostly imagination, but the right shape seems to sit 'straight' in my palm and gives me very good feel of where the saw is pointing.

However, I doubt one size could ever suit all. We all seem to have personal likes & dislikes with handle shapes & sizes (as it should be - no two hands are quite the same!), so I think the right blend of aesthetics & comfort is something you can achieve only for yourself. That's the fun of "rolling your own".