Thread: Jointing Hand Saw (cont.)

Originally Posted by Andy_B

..... Pardon my ignorance and if it has been covered elsewhere, but what is the purpose of the longitudinal concave cut out in the jointer? Is it only to reduce resistance during use? ...

I think that may be part of the idea Andy. You can make the guide a bit wider for the same amount of friction, and the wider face is easier to hold square against the saw. But you don't need the groove, just learn to keep the guide firmly against the saw as you file. If the saw is in reasonable shape you don't need all that many passes of the file, but if every second tooth is low by a mm or so it will take many more.

Originally Posted by Andy_B

..... I bought a saw from eBay recently, hoping it would be a good user. Definitely needs a good sharpen, however, the profile of the teeth appears to be unusual (at least for me...). Every second tooth is protruding out and noticeably narrower than its adjacent teeth. Any particular reason for this? ....

Yes, poor sharpening technique and poor setting.

When you do your first crosscut (or first half-dozen!), you'll probably find it difficult to keep the file angles constant from one side to the other. This is because whichever way you choose to file, in every gullet there is one tooth pointing towards you & the other pointing away. The file will tend to catch on the tooth pointing towards you, but cut smoothly on the one pointing away. The fleam you are trying to put on the teeth exacerbates the catching (it's much less of a problem with rip saws where you file straight across), so your hands tend to follow a path of least resistance and you end up taking more off the pointing-away tooth instead of cutting the same amount off each. When you turn the saw around to do the opposite teeth, everything is reversed and you have to re-establish your grip & stance accordingly. Novices tend get the second set of file angles messed up a bit - you just trained your muscles and eyes to hold a fixed set of angles for several hundred file strokes & now your asking them to do the exact opposite! Unfortunately, Murphy makes sure that your errors are always additive, they never seem to cancel out & when you check your saw at the end of the second side, you have one set of teeth fairly consistently lower than the other.

That would explain why every second tooth is low. Usually the low teeth stick out less, not more, since more has been filed off their tops, but the person who "sharpened" that saw would quickly have discovered it wanted to cut circles & may have tried to compensate by setting the low side a bit harder (?? just a guess).

When you first start, using guide sticks to help you keep the file angles constant is pretty much required until you've had enough practice that you can feel when the file is cutting evenly on both faces. Then you can dispense with the training wheels & do them 'freehand'. As I keep saying, it's best to learn on rip pattern teeth, crosscuts have two angles to keep constant (three if you want 'sloped' gullets!), and are therefore twice as difficult to do well.

I've got a spare "Eclipse" style set you can have for postage, or pickup if you live anywhere near the western suburbs. PM me if interested and we can organise it...

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Andy_B

I bought a saw from eBay recently, hoping it would be a good user. Definitely needs a good sharpen, however, the profile of the teeth appears to be unusual (at least for me...). Every second tooth is protruding out and noticeably narrower than its adjacent teeth. Any particular reason for this?

Hi Andy
Your ebay saw appears to me to be unusable


The saw appears to be missing one of its three screws and the handle is so poorly positioned in respect to the direction required for effective sawing as to make the saw unusable.

From here it looks like the ebay seller has repositioned the handle so that the full tooth line is accessible. I suspect that if the handle was positioned as it should be, the last 4 to 5 inches of the saw plate would be inaccessible.


I hope the saw was inexpensive.

Thanks for the extensive explanation, IanW! I've watched a few saw sharpening videos and your descriptions helped consolidating my understanding. No doubt I will still mess it up and further ruin the angles (thanks Murphy!), but it's all part of the joy. Will probably start with a rip cut teeth profile. Hope I wouldn't dull the files just on this one saw... Thank you for your generous saw set offer, I'll send you a PM.

Ian, the photo might have shown an optical illusion. Before taking the picture, I had removed the handle in view of cleaning the blade and as such the handle wasn't attached to the blade. Perhaps I should have screwed the handle back on for the photo. Here's the saw with the handle screwed on.
IMG_20200928_202055499.jpg
I paid just under $30 including postage for it, hopefully it proves somewhat usable.

Andy

Andy

Ian has covered it all for the cove in the jointer and the poorly filed teeth. If it is convenient, take him up on the offer to visit his workshop. It is not the largest i have seen, but a real treat.

I tend to recommend this video on saw sharpening and restoration. While it is long, it covers everything and your namesake, Andy, is easy to listen to.

Sharpening Western Saws - YouTube

Regards
Paul

Thanks for the YouTube link, Paul. Two hours gone in a blink of an eye - very clearly presented especially with the aid of hand drawn sketches.

Ignorance is bliss; fixing those teeth seems to require more work than I initially anticipated. Probably will need to reshape the teeth to some extent.

Yes, I did take Ian's offer and we've arranged a time to meet. Looking forward to it!

Andy

Hi Andy. I am half way through the video. It is good. Thanks Paul.

Hi MA, I'm surprised you managed to squeeze in the video in between your many plane builds! They look fantastic. Will need to browse through your posts when I'm ready to have a go making one.

Andy

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi Andy. I am half way through the video. It is good. Thanks Paul.

Hi Andy. Thank you. There is so much to learn and YouTube can be a great resource. But I often fall asleep half way through their videos.

Wanted to say thanks again for today IanW, I had a blast at your workshop. Paul was right, it was a real treat to see the various tools that you made. It opened my eyes to see the level of quality that one can create from home with enough practice and determination. Mind-blowing to say the least!!! Ian's not only generous with the giveaways but also with his time and knowledge. I learnt a lot more today in an hour and a half than weeks worth of videos and blog readings! Thank you!

Andy

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