Thread: Jointing Planes - Do I need One?

Originally Posted by Tools4Me

That's what I'm wondering? My longest plane is a jack; which is what I use when I want to joint boards for a panel. This doesn't work very well, but I'll put that down to my inability to hold the damn thing square. I don't expect a jointer to solve that problem, but it may assist in getting better glue joints as well as ultimately flattening the panels that I make.

In the blogs that I follow or podcasts that I watch, a jointer seems ever present. But do they really get used much by us "average" woodworkers? For the folks out there that have one, do you use it much? Does it make a difference? Or is it just another tool to own?

for me the #6 is as useful as the #7 and a little easier to carry around.
paired with a square, a long straight edge and practice a #5 will joint boards up to about 1.8m long
the #6 or #7 makes the job go a little faster, but the key is your planing technique.
only the 3rd last pass needs to be full length and square, up till then you can be working on removing high spots and areas where the edge is off square.
the last and second last passes should be very light cuts from the middle section of the join to achieve a sprung joint.

but what is an "average" woodworker?
if "average" includes people who care about what they're making and want to do the best work they can, then the "average" worker needs a well set up #5, #6 or #7 -- you don't need all three
many will argue that the #5 and #6 are interchangeable
the "advanced" worker might have a #5-1/2 and a #8

a rough carpenter might have a coarsely set #4 or #5 to hog material off quickly

Originally Posted by Tools4Me

And yes Wongo, I do!

Right what should I say? Sorry but I am not available.

Originally Posted by Tools4Me

Anybody got any thoughts on how high bevel angle blades in a BU plane compare with a high angle frog in a BU down plane? Will the same effective high angle deal with woods equally as well?

from memory Derek Cohen has compared high angle frog BD palnes with high angle BU blades and concluded they perform very much the same.
Derek's site is here In The Woodshop

However, high cutting angle planes are harder to push (compared to blades cutting at 45°) and if you're jointing, it will be rare that you need the high angle.

Originally Posted by Christos

It gives me quite a good feeling being about to do this by hand.

Originally Posted by fencefurniture

Originally Posted by christos

it gives me quite a good feeling being about to do this by hand.

lol

Originally Posted by Tools4Me

Yes, it's the LV BUJ that I'm considering. I am also interested in their higher bevel angle blades as they can raise the effective cutting angle to 60 degrees (I think).

With a bevel-up plane you can set the effective pitch to any angle you want. The bed on the Veritas BU planes is 12°, and the stock irons are 25°, 38° and 50° - giving you EPs of 37°, 50° and 62° respectively (12° + 25° = 37° etc).

But if you want 55°, put a 43° micro-bevel on the cutting edge of your iron, and if you need 70° , put a 58° micro-bevel on the cutting edge.... No need at all to stick with the stock bevels.

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.

I have a #6 and #7 both need time spent on them tuning, I have a couple of stanley #5 (one with a radius blade one straight) and a LV BU, I use a combo of these to joint board edges which seems to work for me, as Ian said with careful use of a straight edge and square I can produce a sprung square edged board ready for gluing.
Would I use the #6 or #7 if they were tuned? maybe, But would I produce a better edge on the board? maybe! but maybe not!
I recall a story about Yehudi Menuin, a couple of notes into a concert performance broke a string on his violin, didn't stop but continued to play the entire piece without missing a note,


Pete

A minor thread jack, whilst it's being mentioned:

I'm very curious about these sprung joints, which to me are a little counter-intuitive. Clearly they work, and the spring is easily held in place by the glue, so what is the purpose - preventing warping because the board is thinking too hard about the spring to worry about movement in other directions?

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

A minor thread jack, whilst it's being mentioned:

I'm very curious about these sprung joints, which to me are a little counter-intuitive. Clearly they work, and the spring is easily held in place by the glue, so what is the purpose - preventing warping because the board is thinking too hard about the spring to worry about movement in other directions?

Thanks FF. I was wondering about sprung joints myself. Never heard the term before.

Some good info here: - panel-glue-ups-richard-jones-furniture

Originally Posted by Tools4Me

Does it make a difference? Or is it just another tool to own?

It can make a difference. Don't let the the second question trouble you .

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

A minor thread jack, whilst it's being mentioned:

I'm very curious about these sprung joints, which to me are a little counter-intuitive. Clearly they work, and the spring is easily held in place by the glue, so what is the purpose - preventing warping because the board is thinking too hard about the spring to worry about movement in other directions?

Brett, you're right, they are counter-intuitive if the wood you are glueing up is at equilibrium moisture content (EMC) & unlikely to change much from that point on. In that case, a perfectly straight joint is more logical. However, wood is/was often glued up when the MC was above EMC, so it's going to shrink once it goes into heated/airconditioned houses. Because moisture can escape more quickly from the ends, you will get more rapid drying & shrinkage at the ends of boards than in the centres. This puts tension on the glue lines near the ends, and they may let go. 'Springing' the joint puts extra pressure on the ends of the boards, which counters the tension that develops due to rapid shrinkage of the ends. Eventually, the whole board equilibrates, and there should be less pressure (maybe none at all) on the ends. All being well, your glue lines should remain intact, & they are now under little or no pressure or tension at any point. If you choose to use this method & take a little out of the middle of a board, the emphasis is on a little, or you could end up with too much tension on your glue-line in the centre. The more popular synthetic glues are all thermoplastic, so it makes no sense to have the glue lines under much tension, or you will get creep, particularly if we are going to go on having summers like the one we just experinced!

Cheers,

Thanks Ian.

also Sprung joints don't really need much clamping at the ends
clamp in the middle and the spring ensures the ends are tight together

I repeat, thanks Ian