Thread: On Labor Day

Originally Posted by Bob Smalser

Only CARPENTER'S

'so you've got a skill.....so what ?' ......the worlds a twisted place I think. Always bothered me.

where often the most honest, patient, hard working types with skills are near the bottom of the barrel.....lives that are often directed about by soft handed IMpatient types being excessively paid for next to nothing, enjoying the power of it all at the same time.

Originally Posted by apricotripper

where often the most honest, patient, hard working types with skills are near the bottom of the barrel.....

The men I grew up in the 1950's well before any craft revivals with weren't directed by anybody as whether houses or boats, they only built on speculation. None of them liked to work for clients on contract, and wouldn't as soon as they became sufficiently successful to finance their own projects.

The sad part is while they were proud of their work, they were ashamed of their lack of education and looked down on it as something they didn't want their children to do. College men they wanted their children to be, but college men "didn't "work with their hands". Now we stumble along relearning the hand tool skills they took for granted.

That is the significant line....

Originally Posted by Bob Smalser

The sad part is while they were proud of their work, they were ashamed of their lack of education and looked down on it as something they didn't want their children to do. College men they wanted their children to be, but college men "didn't "work with their hands". Now we stumble along relearning the hand tool skills they took for granted.

Bob
When I went to school I wasn't allowed to do wood or metal work. Because I was in the "smart" class I had to do Latin. The "dumb" classes did trade subjects. Now woodwork is my passion, and I think it is a life wasted. Now I stumble along relearning the hand tool skills they took for granted."

You really hit the nail on the head with that last line, and no pun intended.
Also thank you for all the knowledge you have shared with us, especially rehabilitating old tools, you like those you learned from are an inspiration.

Originally Posted by Caliban

Bob
When I went to school I wasn't allowed to do wood or metal work. Because I was in the "smart" class I had to do Latin. The "dumb" classes did trade subjects.

Sigh...tell me about it. I sure would like to go over to voco and take some classes but I'm cursed with being able to learn quickly so AP Chemistry and other advanced classes are taking up too much of my high school time. Oh well, that "curse" I have keeps me from homework most of the time so school doesn't dictate my home time

In the words of my old deputy principal.."Why would you want to do woodwork if you plan on going to uni?"

Still, I'm here and he's long gone, without the satisfaction of being able to make something.

My teachers all urged me to go to high school and eventually to uni.

But I didn't intend to learn french or latin,

So I went to tech and learned woodwork & metalwork etc.
No regrets at all about never doing uni

Though I ended up in management , but that was my stupidity.

Originally Posted by Bob Smalser

Now we stumble along relearning the hand tool skills they took for granted.

I at least know what you mean about the lack of skills. I work in a joinery at present, and the 3rd year apprentice doesn't know how to sharpen a plane blade, or a chisel properly. Heard of a second year wood machinist who'd never even used a cordless drill.

The boss scoffs at me whenever I pick up my plane, but of course is happy when I patch up machine errors with it,,,,that can't really be fixed properly any quicker way. I saved a run of slider heads with a rebate plane once because the machine wasn't setup properly and the whole lot had been undercut and couldn't be re-run.

That the boss has left these skills die is a worry.

My maternal gramps was a mechanic at a coal mine in Pennsylvania. He regaled us with some of his tales about the mining engineers scratching their heads for a few days, until the boss asked, "I wonder what Tom thinks?" Tom had the answer immediately.

I was the first of my generation to attend Uni; not the first to graduate, but that's another story. For much of my engineering management career, I had to correct the ham-handed designs cooked up by recent graduates; most of them had never even made a bookcase from orange crates. My gramps' influence helped a lot there and elsewhere. Just wish I'd had more time with him.

Joe

In 8th grade in a Brisbane school we had to do woodwork, metalwork and tech drawing. Hating the woodwork I complained to my father, who'd had to do it too way back when. He was given a rough lump of timber and a few blunt hand tools and had to produce a cube just as an exercise.

I'm glad I did those tech subjects cos I learned a lot, but lordy the tools and the teaching were poor. 'If it's not hard it's not worth learning' kind of attitude. Well it didn't excite me then and double that in spades for my kids.

There's no reason why using power tools to do the mug's share can't be included in project work in a school, and concentrate instead on the satisfactions of design, good materials and good finish and a made object to take home.

Under 16yo generally not permitted to use power tools in the workplace,
why should schools be any different.
plus the kids do need to know how a join works

What 'the law' says isn't of much interest to me per se.

It's the Internet and iPod generation that we need to get interested in woodworking and other manual skills.

Got any better ideas?

Added: and I wasn't talking about joints ... just about basic shaping and the fact that the way that the teaching was done turned off two of us and I bet a heap more.

I absolutely hated woodwork at school, the teacher was a real PITA.

His "punishment' for not automatically knowing how to do something was to set a 20 page essay, to be handed in the following week, on the thing you didn't know how to do. I thought he was supposed to be a teacher

He was known to put a students hand in the vice and tighten it when he thought that they had the vice to tight on a piece of wood.

I now enjoy woodworking immensely, not because of him, but in spite of him.

As a footnote, about 5 years after I left school I came across him on the side of the road, miles from anywhere, out of petrol. I pulled over to help, and when I saw it was him, told him if he submitted a 20 page essay on why I should help him, then I would. It gave me great pleasure to drive away and leave him standing there with an empty fuel can. Nasty I know, but gee it felt good.

Originally Posted by Geoff Dean

. I pulled over to help, and when I saw it was him, told him if he submitted a 20 page essay on why I should help him, then I would. It gave me great pleasure to drive away and leave him standing there with an empty fuel can. Nasty I know, but gee it felt good.

....Geeoooooff....bit naughty mate.