Thread: Stanley #29 Transitional Plane

Originally Posted by KahoyKutter

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Hello everyone,

I just acquired this #29 yesterday and I was looking to upgrade the blade and chipbreaker. I was leaning towards the Veritas set because I'm a fan of there PMV11 blades. Can anyone tell me for sure if the Veritas PMV11 blade and cap iron (chipbreaker) for the Stanley #7 will be compatible with the #29? From the little info I've found, I'm about 90% sure that it will but I just wanted to see if it's definitely compatible or if I'm going to have issues with the length of the screw that joins the chipbreaker and blade together. Or are there better replacement blade combos that I should consider. It's not exactly a cheap upgrade (the PMV11 blade is more than what I paid for the plane) and if there are better options out there, I appreciate hearing about them. The Luban set is another that I'm considering. It's much cheaper and it looks like it comes with the screw so it's one less thing I'd have to worry about.



Thanks in advance,
Mike

You may have a couple of problems with a significantly thicker blade and chip-breaker.
First of all, if the wooden body is original, there may not be enough clearance at the mouth to accommodate these.
If you go for the blade only, the cap-iron screw will likely be too short to engage through the blade.
I have found that Ron Hock blades - which are a little thicker than the original Stanley, but not as thick as the Veritas and Luban etc, will work well enough and leave clearance for the shavings.
Cheers
Tom

Thanks Tom. The mouth clearance isn't something that I had even considered.

Originally Posted by KahoyKutter

Thanks Tom. The mouth clearance isn't something that I had even considered.

Sometimes these old transitionals have had their soles jointed to flatten out scratches, gouges and chips.
Of course this opens the mouth. Now if this has been done to yours, then the thicker Luban combination might fit, but then you can run into the problem of the depth adjuster not reaching the cap-iron, or failing to engage it properly because it is now too short.
Tom

I've not tried any of those new irons personally, I just use old Stanley irons, but I know it's a common complaint that the thicker irons with a cap-iron do not engage satisfactorily on the iron adjuster yoke.

The wooden bottom planes frog/yoke is pretty much identical in their basic dimensions to the metallic bench planes so if the replacement iron you like fits a No. 4 1/2 or No. 7 then I'd wager it'd fit the No. 29.

It looks like the WoodWorks sell a Hock 2.38mm thick A2 Cryo blade. It's not cheap but it's not too much thicker than the original blade (approx 2mm).

Mike, I think your "29" should have a 1 in front of it, should it not? The 129 is a transitional fore plane, 20" long with a 2 3/8 blade according to Mr. Leach.

I can't tell you for absolute sure that a 2 3/8" Veritas blade will fit, but I just checked the LV online catalogue & according to that all their Stanley-type bench plane blades are 0.10" thick, which is just 0.02" thicker than the originals typically were, so your cap-iron screw should reach through enough to get a good grip. Most CI screws have about 1/2 to a full turn of thread peeking above the surface when tightened, so you have a bit of leeway. I've not had a problem fitting any of the Veritas or Hock blades to old Stanleys or Records, but I know some people have, so the problem does exist. If you already have a Veritas blade in any other width you can easily check if the screw will reach through...

I'm fairly sure you can't substitute the cap-iron & even more certain you can't substitute the lever cap from the metal planes, I had a smoother-sized version half a lifetime ago & I remember there were some differences like that, but it was half a lifetime ago & the details are a bit hazy. AFAIK, the actual blades were totally interchangeable.

Patrick is very dismissive of the transitionals - not really sure why. Indeed, they are often found in pretty sad condition, but when fettled up can make tolerable tools. The one I had was not a brilliant plane, but I think that was more a user problem than any fault of the plane itself!

Cheers,

I just remembered that I have a LN #5 1/2 so I tried the blade and chipbreaker from it . Unfortunately it's not compatible with the depth adjustment hole being in the wrong spot. The LN blade with the original chipbreaker and LN screw fits in the plane, but as per Tom's prediction, the mouth is too tight. I measure the LN blade to be approx 3.6mm.

Originally Posted by KahoyKutter

It looks like the WoodWorks sell a Hock 2.38mm thick A2 Cryo blade. It's not cheap but it's not too much thicker than the original blade (approx 2mm).

I'd double-check that - Hocks are generally quoted as 1/8" (0.125) which is 3.2mm not 2! The couple I have are certainly about that, but I'm not going down in the dark & cold to check - I can do that tomorrow though, if you like.

Also, I thought Hocks were always O1 - I didn't know they ever made A2 blades??

Cheers,

Originally Posted by KahoyKutter

I just remembered that I have a LN #5 1/2 so I tried the blade and chipbreaker from it ..

Yes, as I suspected the CB is different, the adjuster slot won't match, but if the CB from your 129 can be screwed on through the LN blade then you know you'll be fine with a Veritas or Hock...

Originally Posted by IanW

Mike, I think your "29" should have a 1 in front of it, should it not? The 129 is a transitional fore plane, 20" long with a 2 3/8 blade according to Mr. Leach.

I can't tell you for absolute sure that a 2 3/8" Veritas blade will fit, but I just checked the LV online catalogue & according to that all their Stanley-type bench plane blades are 0.10" thick, which is just 0.02" thicker than the originals typically were, so your cap-iron screw should reach through enough to get a good grip. Most CI screws have about 1/2 to a full turn of thread peeking above the surface when tightened, so you have a bit of leeway. I've not had a problem fitting any of the Veritas or Hock blades to old Stanleys or Records, but I know some people have, so the problem does exist. If you already have a Veritas blade in any other width you can easily check if the screw will reach through...

I'm fairly sure you can't substitute the cap-iron & even more certain you can't substitute the lever cap from the metal planes, I had a smoother-sized version half a lifetime ago & I remember there were some differences like that, but it was half a lifetime ago & the details are a bit hazy. AFAIK, the actual blades were totally interchangeable.

Patrick is very dismissive of the transitionals - not really sure why. Indeed, they are often found in pretty sad condition, but when fettled up can make tolerable tools. The one I had was not a brilliant plane, but I think that was more a user problem than any fault of the plane itself!

Cheers,

Thanks for your input, Ian.

According to the stamp on the toe, it's a No. 29. I know that the #127 are the "Liberty" transitional Jack plane or at least that's according to the ones I saw on eBay. I assume that #129 would be the Liberty Fore plane version.

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It's hard to photograph, but the stamp under a previous owner's stamp definitely says No. 29.



It's a shame about the cap-iron if you're right. The lever cap I wasn't planning on changing but I was hoping to upgrade the cap-iron. I was hoping the Hock 2.38mm blade would be thin enough to pair up with a newer cap-iron.

Originally Posted by IanW

I'd double-check that - Hocks are generally quoted as 1/8" (0.125) which is 3.2mm not 2! The couple I have are certainly about that, but I'm not going down in the dark & cold to check - I can do that tomorrow though, if you like.

Also, I thought Hocks were always O1 - I didn't know they ever made A2 blades??

Cheers,

According to the description in the WoodWorks page it's 2.38mm and it seems to be confirmed further on by the imperial measurement of 3/32" and the photo of the label on the packaging (see below).


Image 8-6-2022 at 6.37 pm.jpg



Correction: The photo of the label does not actually confirm the thickness. My bad.

They do have an O1 version and it's dimensions look to be exactly the same

Image 8-6-2022 at 6.40 pm.jpg

Keep an eye out for a Titan or Australian Stanley HSS blade; these are exactly the same thickness as normal blades but the HSS tip really improves things.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Keep an eye out for a Titan or Australian Stanley HSS blade; these are exactly the same thickness as normal blades but the HSS tip really improves things.

Chief, those old Titan/Stanley HSS blades must be getting pretty thin on the ground by now?! I bought one in the late 80s, it was my first after-market blade and I was so impressed by it, it started a 20 plus year quest for the toughest plane blade on earth.

I've since come to realise there are a few other attributes beside super-hardness, all of the aftermarket blades I've had have been good to excellent in their own way. Of all the "modern" steels, I think A2 is my least favourite, it's far tougher than old original Stanley/Record blades, for sure, but the high bevel angle needed to minimise chipping is a downside.

Mike - you're a pretty resourceful chap, I reckon you should consider having a go at making a new cap-iron if you don't like the original, it's not all that difficult. But tbh, there is really nothing wrong with the originals, despite the hype of retailers of replacement CIs. As long as they are not pitted or otherwise damaged & properly fitted, they do an adequate job imo. I reckon you'll notice a far bigger difference from a slightly thicker blade than you'll notice with a heavier cap-iron.

OK, I stand corrected on the number, I was just going by the Blood & Gore entry - he doesn't mention a "29", so I thought maybe there had been a "1" that got obliterated or something...

Cheers,