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  1. #31
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    Without trying any planes I am leaning towards Veritas for the bullnose plane and block plane but maybe a LN for the number 3.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomartomau View Post
    Without trying any planes I am leaning towards Veritas for the bullnose plane and block plane but maybe a LN for the number 3.
    I would not get a bullnose plane. They have a very limited range for use. Basically useless for most tasks owing to the lack of registration at the toe.

    Get the Veritas Medium Shoulder plane - wonderful for rebates and trimming against a wall.

    For a premium plane, the LN #3 or the Veritas Custom #4 would be my short list for a smoother. My #3 has a 45 degree frog, and the Veritas #4 has a 42 degree frog (but this is advanced users only - get the 45). Learn to set the chipbreaker to avoid tearout.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  4. #33
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    Derek, thank you.I will take that advice. Thank you and others for being to the he point and on point.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomartomau View Post
    Thanks Derek. I am use mainly machinery and power tools but I like to fit and finish with hand tools where required. I have a couple of planes a old, old Stanley block plane with a sweetheart logo on the blade and a no 3 Stanley which has a broken rear handle but has pitting in the sole.

    I really only require 3 planes as I see it to do what I need.
    A smoother, in my case a no 3
    A standard Block plane, I prefer the alignment of the set screws on the Veritas
    Small plane to clean up raised panels to fit into rabbets


    In post #15 of this thread, you said: "I however would like a kit that can help refine my joinery such as making joints flush". I would add a shooting plane to your list if I were you. I'm not sure what you're currently using to trim and square up the ends of your boards, but my joinery has improved since the addition of a shooting plane and board to my kit. But my biggest improvement was due to improved techniques and more practice. The improved technique I mentioned include to taking more care in laying out the joints, being more patient and slowly working to the lines, test fitting more as I go and gradually refining the pieces, and switching to a marking knife.

    BTW, I'm no expert on any of this. I'm still very much a novice on a steep learning curve and I'm just sharing my personal experience. Derek, Ian and the other more experienced members are the ones you really should listen to. But sometimes a novice like me, who doesn't find woodworking easy, may be able to offer a different perspective.

  6. #35
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    Thanks KahoyCutter, I did look at them, I think I will buy the three I mentioned with a view to add a shooting plane later.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    I would not get a bullnose plane. They have a very limited range for use. Basically useless for most tasks owing to the lack of registration at the toe.....
    I'll second that. A bullnosed plane is a wonderful thing when you really, really need it, but that's about once or twice in a lifetime unless you have a penchant for making stuff with lowered grounds. I have two, both home-made:
    B_N rebate.jpgDone a.jpg

    The chariot is the better of the two in most situations because it's more stable (1 1/4" wide vs 1" for the bull-nosed rebate,pics are not to scale so the difference in size is not apparent), but it doesn't have the rebate facility, so they both sit in the toolbox for those very rare occasions when I particularly need one or the other. Since they cost me very little to make (apart from time) that's ok, but if I'd had to buy anything like these, I would need several lifetimes to justify the cost!
    There are plenty of workarounds to get the job done without a bullnose, a little slower, but that's not a big issue for most amateurs. Besides, you said you like using power tools & routers excel at digging out lowered areas.

    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    ....Get the Veritas Medium Shoulder plane - wonderful for rebates and trimming against a wall.....
    Again, I agree with Derek. While a shoulder plane is also something of a luxury & you can live quite happily without one, I find many more opportunities to use a SP. in my work. I might debate the "get a medium" advice a little bit, you should think through what you are most likely to use it on. I've got 3 SPs (again, only because I can ), a fairly hefty 1 1/4" job, a 3/4", and a little 1/2".

    S-planes 2.jpg

    Of these I use the large & the small quite a bit, but the 3/4" spends far more time just sittin'. If I didn't have the large one I suppose I'd get by reasonably well with the 3/4" doing the jobs the 1 1/4" is called on to do, but you can't beat lots of mass when it comes to sliding a SP squarely & evenly across a bit of end-grain. OTH, even though the 1/2 inch is only a little bit narrower, it is quite a jump down in size from the 3/4 and far more convenient for "small stuff". I suppose most folks don't waste as much time on small stuff as I do and would probably have little use for the baby version. So maybe the middle of the road approach is the wisest one after all....

    Cheers,
    IW

  8. #37
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    You certainly have a gift with toolmaking, those and the previous pictures look bespoke and a credit to you.
    I typically would use a shoulder plane on rebates around 8mm, so a plane width to suit.

  9. #38
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    Ian, I have the Veritas 1/2", 3/4", and 1 1/4" shoulder planes. The one I use the most is the 1/2". I recommended the 3/4" as it is the most versatile, and the one to get if you only have one.

    In a similar vein, I also have the LN Rabbet Block Plane and the Veritas Jack Rabbet Plane. Both get some use, but not nearly as much as a shoulder plane (which is rarely used on tenon shoulders).

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomartomau View Post
    I was watching a number of Rob Cosman videos, O have in the past come across a few and for what it is worth I think he is capable at setting up planes. The planes he uses are WoodRiver which I believe he has a vested interest but I am more interested in how to set one up from new.
    Rob does a few things that I am unsure I would like to do on a premium plane and I would like your thoughts on;
    1. Taking the edge of the sides, front and back of the sole of the plane.
    2. Filing the burr of the front of the mouth of the plane.
    Would you guys do that to a $300+ plane?
    I wouldn't buy a wood river plane for $300, but if a plane has finish issues or needs setting up, then you can do whatever it needs.

    You also have the choice to wait and do some of that stuff later. Rob doesn't take advantage of the functionality of a double iron plane and he's got some antiquated ideas about sharpening, but he's a top expert (like sellers) at attracting and keeping beginners nearby with their wallets open. If he does something and nobody else does, that will clue you into it not being totally necessary.

    Just about all new planes need something done to the cap iron as they come either blunt tipped or with a low angle. Other than that, not much should be needed.

    I've received two planes (out of ten - I no longer have any of them) from LN that were hollow in their length. When I was a beginner, I just resold the first one and disclosed it. the most recent plane, I lapped the sole and made it work far better, but I'm also not a beginner and can hand flatten/file/lap a sole to a fraction of LN's tolerance, and know when it doesn't matter.

    I disclosed flattening the second as an improvement, showed pictures of the sole and had no trouble selling it.

    But if I were a beginner, I'd do the minimal amount needed and do more later. Rob's job is to get you to buy planes and pay for his online stuff - I haven't seen anyone who was a strong woodworker or maker of any type say that they learned from him, but I've run into many who have belonged to his site for years and haven't gotten anywhere.

    The real issue is simple - when you follow the guys who specialize in beginners, they are teaching you methods. In order to learn to use tools well, you have to really want to make something well - not learn a method well. The thing you want to make will give you a bar to measure outcomes and without it, learning a bunch of supposed tricks doesn't amount to much.

  11. #40
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    It just occurred to me that $300 for a plane in australia may not be the same as $300 in the US.

    Woodcraft sells a #4 for about $250 with shipping and tax unless they're offering free shipping, and about $30 more for the #5. Up from there for bigger planes.

    The steel that they use is OK - it's a water hardening steel (T10/Sk4/W1-A), but I wouldn't expect them to be as consistent with it as LN is with A2 or Hock is with O1. It's kind of a harsh thing to buy a plane that expensive with a blade that's literally made with a couple of dollars of steel at the most because buying an oil or air hardening steel for a couple of dollars more is a bridge too far.

  12. #41
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    David, the LN #4 (in iron) in Oz is $530 AUD; the WoodRiver is $400 AUD. It appears that the Veritas Custom #4 is not stocked anywhere at this time. The Luban #4 is $250 AUD.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  13. #42
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    Those all have a bad taste to me, but I get the reason that they are what they are - someone is distributing them separately to AU.

    The dollar is so strong right now in the US that it's hard to make much sense of the prices without conversion. that conversion may make the prices lower than usual and closer to what they are here.

    WC sells the #4 here for $215, which is a princely sum for a chinese made plane with a blade made of extremely low cost steel. But WC generally has the highest price on anything they have because they have, in my opinion, an antiquated structure that makes it hard for anyone with experience to find anything worth getting there.

    but to convert with today's conversion rate, those prices become:
    - LN 4 - $368 USD vs current US price of $300+ tax - not that bad all things considered
    - WR 4 - $275 USD (bonkers)
    - Luban - $174 USD

    I remember being a beginner. You get a good plane out of the package and the chances are high that it works well for the most accurate work. Actually getting a stanley in that ballpark isn't difficult, but it's a matter of what little to do and what not to do and that's not going to be present for a beginner.

    All that said, I think supporting LN is always a good thing as a vote tiebreaker, and the luban makes more sense than the WR plane.

    Water hardening steels have a lot of potential aside from not having very good wear resistance, but I can't imagine that potential being realized with industrial heat treating. O1 and A2 and V11 are more forgiving and more likely to be consistent hardness.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    ... I have the Veritas 1/2", 3/4", and 1 1/4" shoulder planes. The one I use the most is the 1/2". I recommended the 3/4" as it is the most versatile, and the one to get if you only have one....
    Derek, I did sort of talk myself round to your way of thinking before I finished my post...

    I do find far more use for my little 1/2" SP than I imagined I would. To be honest, I only made it for fun & to complete the "set", thinking it would be a cute ornament more than a hard-working tool, but as I said, it was a surprise to me when I found far more uses for it than I envisaged. My home-spun version is a bit smaller than the Veritas 1/2", which makes it very handy for small work (like finessing the stuffing in tiny planes ).

    In general, I would only use a regular SP to tweak a long tenon shoulder, most tenons in furniture-making are more easily tuned with a sharp chisel as I was taught to do in school. The big SP is great for tidying up the cross-grain of fielded panels & probably sees more use in that sort of role than finessing tenon shoulders. As we have agreed on previous occasions, a SP is a luxury rather than a necessity....

    Ian
    IW

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomartomau View Post
    You certainly have a gift with toolmaking, those and the previous pictures look bespoke and a credit to you.
    I typically would use a shoulder plane on rebates around 8mm, so a plane width to suit.
    tt, it's a trap I've fallen into. By the time you've been making things for 35 years, you have reached a level of competence that you are unlikely to improve on materially; you have filled your house & those of your offspring (mine make few demands on me, unfortunately ) with all the bits & pieces a sane person could need or desire, so you turn to other diversions. In my case it was making fancy tools - it started innocently enough - the first tool I made that I was pleased with was a shoulder plane (it got a page in FWW somewhere in the early 80s). Although it satisfied me at the time, years down the track it looks very amateurish to me, which is why I made another (and another....). I do have some pretty nice tools which are a joy to work with, but the irony is I just don't use them as much as I would have if I'd had them 40 years ago.

    Although I would not have believed or understood it in the beginning, what worked very well for me was NOT having wonderful tools when I started out. Learning to extract the maximum from indifferent tools taught me far more about the function than if I'd been able to afford the "best" from the get-go. The difference between a well-fettled vintage Bailey and a L-N is more a matter of aesthetics & personal preferences than any functional difference. By all means acquire the best tools you can, I doubt you will regret too many (although you would be far from unique if you do acquire a few expensive tools that you just don't get on with!) But if you are interested in getting the best out of hand-tools, at some point, get yourself a few beaten-up things & try to make them work well. What they teach you will spill over to the fancy tools & you'll find yourself extracting even more from them & enjoying them more. I can almost guarantee it.....

    Cheers,
    IW

  16. #45
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    So as to not clag up this thread with my thoughts on BU secondary bevels to alleviate the clearance problems inherent in BU designs, I started this new thread: Sharpening BU planes - add a 13°+ to underside?

    I suspect it has already been discussed in exhaustive detail elsewhere however.... JLMK

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