Light vs Heavy planes

**derekcohen** · 28th June 2020, 03:44 PM

There has been some controversy over many years as to the part played by mass in a plane. Some argue that it improves planing and others that it is irrelevant. Higher mass is typically a feature of premium, especially custom planes - among vintage planes, names such as Spier and Norris come to the fore, while Brese, Sauer and Steiner, Holtey, Daed, are among the modern planemakers. Lower mass is found in woodies, such as HNT Gordon, and metal planes such as Stanley. Modern planes, such as Lie Nielsen and Veritas fall into the middle ground.

The heavier planes were considered de rigueur about 15 years ago. Many of these planes were single iron and high mass, thick irons and a tight mouth were believed to be necessary for performance planing. Generally they fell out of favour, and this was partly as high cutting angles on bevel up planes gained momentum, and then this was accelerated when the close up chipbreaker returned to the equation.

My high mass planes have sat on the shelf for many years as I found a preference for lighter, more nimble planes which require less physical effort to move around. In smoothers, I like small planes, such as #3 size, and have a few that get rotated, such as a Stanley #3, LN #3, and a Veritas Custom #4 (come on Rob, where’s the #3?). I also have a wonderful high angle woody by HNT Gordon.

In recent months, spurred by curiosity, I have used a Marcou BU smoother and a LN #4 1/2 Anniversary.

Note that the LN is planing into the grain of interlocked Jarrah ...

What was this like?

Well, firstly it brought a smile to my face. Planing was effortless. Push the monster forward, and it peeled off a shaving and left a glowing surface behind. “Monster” is the appropriate term since these planes are not just large physically, but they feel large .. and there is the rub. They disconnect one from the wood. It is a little like pushing a board over a power jointer (although the other way around). There is little that is delicate about this experience so, for those who have a yen for the Jim Krenov spirit, these planes are not for you.

But they perform or, rather, I believe that the extra mass makes performance easier to achieve, which is likely to suit a lesser experienced person.

Interestingly, many years ago I described the Marcou as the best performing smoother I had used. This is a bevel up plane, which I set up with a 60 degree cutting angle. I wrote a review years and years ago about this plane, and my esteem for it has not altered. One of the planes it was compared with was a LN #4 1/2. That did quite well .. but that was pre-chipbreaker days. The LN Anniversary, used here, has a lot more mass than the standard LN #4 1/2. It came with a 50 degree frog, which I have replaced with a 45 degree from (after an unhappy and brief time with the 55 degree frog .. can one say immovable tank?). Closing down the chipbreaker is a revelation with this plane. It could go into reversing grain where the Marcou could not. Simple a powerhouse in every way.

High mass? Definitely not for someone planing all day and every day. But otherwise .. yes .. it does add up to more in a number of ways.

Regards from Perth

Derek

**GraemeCook** · 28th June 2020, 05:21 PM

It is going to be interesting to see what responses you get on this one, Derek; a really provocative question!

For years I was in the "high mass" camp and believed that for bench planing where gravity was on my side, then higher mass was preferable. In other places, lightness was better. Also, my prefered smoother is a #5; I am consistent!

But 18 months ago I was in Japan and their wooden smoothers with blades up to 100mm wide (my guess) are very light and produce amazing results. When I tried to question the weight issue the response was basically incredulity. "Why would you want more weight????" But now we are into the push or pull issue....

Probably the answer is:

A well made light plane is better than a poorly made heavy one, or
A well made heavy plane is better than a poorly made light one, or
What you have available, or
I just like this one!

**bueller** · 28th June 2020, 06:29 PM

Great thread. I've been hand tools only for the last few months so have been getting acquainted with my planes most days, currently working with some Red Oak for a saw till build.

For the most part it's been very nice to work with my Stanley planes and a close chip breaker but some tightly figured sections have been a nightmare for tearout and chatter. A 50 degree microbevel on my Low Angle Jack has worked well but then I decided to try my HNT Gordon A55 smoother and it's king of the pack for those especially tough sections. Coincidentally it's also the lightest of all my bench planes but I keep it waxed regularly and it glides through the timber.

I've also definitely found myself realising I can get a lot more done with my lighter planes, my No. 7 is so big I feel like I lose a ton of control and it's not my finest tuned plane either so can create more problems than it solves sometimes. My No. 4 on the other hand is very well tuned and the extra control means I can feel exactly what's happening as it progresses through the cut. Currently trying to meet in the middle and get on better with my No. 5 to get the best of both worlds.

**ian** · 29th June 2020, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

It is going to be interesting to see what responses you get on this one, Derek; a really provocative question!

Probably the answer is:

What you have available, or
I just like this one!

**Robson Valley** · 29th June 2020, 03:26 AM

Is there not some connection in physics between mass and momentum?
I do some woodcarving. The rough-out parts are commonly done with adzes such as an elbow adze and a D adze.

My first elbow adze seemed weak, a lot of swing and not much bite.
That might have been responsible in part for breaking the handle.
The next handle was thicker wood in places which didn't need to be thinned.
Added more than 30 g to the overall mass.

Night and day difference in performance! Exact same blade and handle pattern. Just didn't feel like the swing was any more effort.

Doing any glue-ups, I have just one Stanley Bailey #5 plane. Seems heavy to me but over rough surfaces, it slides right along.

You speak of "heavy planes" and "light planes." What's the difference in mass? More than 20%?

**Chris Parks** · 29th June 2020, 11:29 AM

I picked up a modern No.4 plane once and was shocked by the weight of it and decided that it was not for me, perhaps if I was to use one for some time I might change my mind but it is a lot of money for a maybe. I do have small modern block planes and a Stanley one as well and use the modern one in preference to the Stanley just because it feels more substantial read heavier which is a bit perverse.

**IanW** · 29th June 2020, 09:39 PM

Had to give this one a lot of thought, Derek. But it didn't help much - I'm not at all sure just how weight fits in the equation of useability. I think Graeme has hit the nail on the head several times - so much "depends". I have generally not liked massive planes, I tried a 4 1/2 early in my career & disliked it intensely, otoh, I love using my thumping great infill panel planes for the highly selective jobs I use them on - the way they sail over the wood, leaving a silken path is one of the best feelings a woodie can experience.

For donkey's years, my go-to smoother was a well-fettled Engish Stanley #4. I weighed it tonight and it weighs 1.66Kg. For reasons that are irrelevant to this discussion, I switched to using a Clifton as my work-horse smoother last year. It feels heavier than the Stanley (& it is @ 1.89Kg), but some of that extra 'weight' is due to the stickiness of its sole, which adds to the inertia at the start of each stroke. I've read a few complaints about ductile iron having more friction than grey cast iron and there does semm to be something in that.

Around Christmas, I finished my second infill built around a #3 (1 3/4") blade. 3-sized Smoother.jpg

Until that came along, I had been developing a great liking for another, slightly smaller infill I'd made, which weighs in at exactly 1.5Kg. Performing on SIE.jpg

The #3 size weighs 1.8Kg. Partly because this infill has no screw adjuster, I leave it set very fine, and it's my 'finishing' smoother - the Bailey type gets the initial work because it is easy to dial up or down a touch, depending on the requirements of the wood being smoothed and how good/bad the surface is to begin with. When I switch to the #3 infill for the last run, it's a real thrill - this thing is just so nice to use. A bit of wax on the (mild steel) sole & it scoots over the wood & feels much lighter than the Clifton - I was surprised when I weighed them tonight & saw they are almost the same weight!

So what's the difference? Why does my plane feel so good to use? Is it the less sticky sole? The slightly narrower blade? The finer setting? Or is it just because I made it & it's all self-congratulation?

There's just so much subjectivity involved. I think we develop our likings for various tools for all sorts of reasons, real & imagined. If there was an ideal weight & size for a given plane/task combo, I'm sure there would be way fewer sizes of smoother to choose from....

Cheers,

**Mountain Ash** · 29th June 2020, 10:04 PM

Hi all. Some may recall my recent wooden shooting plane. Using it on the weekend I was wondering if it could be a bit heavier. But this is probably only so I could "smash" through the cut. Pausing to engage the blade and then giving a controlled push effectively sliced the end grain off the end of a 19mm thick 60mm wide piece of beech. This required a bit of grunt but the result was lovely, both on the timber and in the throat of the plane. I read recently that some old timers would plug the mouth of their "woodies" and fill the throat with BLO, leave it to soak in and enjoy the extra "oomph". Does anyone have experience with this approach?

**IanW** · 30th June 2020, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

I read recently that some old timers would plug the mouth of their "woodies" and fill the throat with BLO, leave it to soak in and enjoy the extra "oomph". Does anyone have experience with this approach?

This was recommended in quite a few old books, MA. I think the idea was to stabilise the wooden body & make it less susceptible to seasonal movement rather than add weight (the increased weight would be barely perceptible, I reckon).

Making deliberate cuts with your shooting plane rather than slamming it into the piece was how we were shown to do it, way back. That way you can control the plane & the cut more effectively. A bit of mass in a pane like that is good because it does add inertia - once you get it moving, it takes more to stop it, giving you a smoother stroke.

As I alluded to in my post above, I think friction is an important part of our perception of "weight" when using a plane. I've always been a sole waxer, even on wooden plane soles. By the end of a heavy planing session, I reckon my wax block has saved me 20% of the energy I'd have expended without it...

Cheers,

**GraemeCook** · 30th June 2020, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by IanW

.....
As I alluded to in my post above, I think friction is an important part of our perception of "weight" when using a plane. I've always been a sole waxer, even on wooden plane soles. By the end of a heavy planing session, I reckon my wax block has saved me 20% of the energy I'd have expended without it...

Cheers,

Not so sure, Ian. I am also a sole polisher or waxer; for some subconscious reason, every two or three years I switch between using paraffin wax and furniture polish, so both heavier and lighter planes have similar friction coefficients. Also polish the sides of any plane used in a shooting board.

Much, much easier to push the planes, and the lesser resistance makes me think that I am getting a better result. And its more enjoyable - critical factor!

Your 20% effort conservation is probably conservative.

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