Thread: LN Dovetail saw

I'll admit I believed LN's progressive pitch saw was aimed at beginners who experienced difficulty in starting saw cuts.

I'm game to try one if anyone would care to sell or lend me one (I'll pay all postage).

Jim, the line you were looking for, is "the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible" very apt..

Ray, I think you'll find it's actually, "The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable."

The perfect tool was invented years ago, but mankind doesn't rest on its laurels.

Well, Woodwould, care to share the secret, and can one get it thin plate?

I went the Adria over the LN after a rather convincing and honest assessment from the maker. It was a close call, but I'm quite happy with the outcome, as I am sure you will be with the LN model.

Originally Posted by Blue-deviled

Well, Woodwould, care to share the secret, and can one get it thin plate?

No, seemingly they didn't think thin plate a viable option.

I'm reposting this because for some reason it doesn't appear to have gone through...

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Certainly, the thinner plate would work best of all the three options when sawing thinner stock.

Derek, would you please clarify?

Hi Woodwould, if you want to try the progressive pitch I can drop it in a bag and send it down.
If I have another made which I'm considering, I would have it go from 16 - 11 maybe the 9 at the heel is a whisker course.

Actually WW, I recall a post on one of the forums, about a thin-bladed dovetail saw (0.15" thick plate), that dated back about 150 years. This was from a woodworker with a reputation for being a stickler for vintage-era tools. I cannot recall whether this was a US- or UK-made saw.

So it is possible that thinner plates were available. The fact that we don't hear much about them may also reflect that they are more fragile.

What I find interesting about the LN thin (0.15") plate is that it has the same 15 ppi as their "standard" (0.20") plate. I would have thought that the thin plate saw would have upped the ppi (to 20) for a finer cut, which would have aimed the saw at thinner stock (more typical of the thinner UK vintage drawer side dimensions than the thicker US drawer dimensions).

I have the original LN dovetail saw (15 ppi). It is very comfortable in the hand for me. I have a broader hand than average and the LN handle is reasonably thick (compared to others). What was less desirable is the zero rake on the teeth, which makes the saw harder to start (at the same angle as one with lower rake). You need to adjust where you point the saw blade. But the LN is aggressive and cuts fast. Good for 1/2" and up stock.

A contrast is the 20 ppi thin blade (0.18) Wenzloff. This cuts a little slower because of the higher teeth count, but nearly adjusts for this with the thinner kerf that results. It has considerably more control on thin boards (1/4"), where larger teeth can catch and shake the wood. This latter point is what I want to emphasize - if one wants a saw for thinner boards, then up the number of teeth. I think that is more important than reducing the plate thickness.

For a comparison of teeth count on a dovetail saw, one can read my review of the Veritas 20 ppi (versus the 14 ppi): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...vetailSaw.html

At the end of the day, I think that groeneaj would find the standard LN will suit him best of the options he gives.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Woodwould

I'm reposting this because for some reason it doesn't appear to have gone through...


Derek, would you please clarify?

Hi WW

Our posts crossed. You will see that I had altered my recommendation in my last post.

For some reason (getting old and demented) I mis-read groeneaj writing that he wanted a saw for 12+ mm as 12- mm. The thicker stock certainly warrants the more solid blade. For myself I would have the thinner plate, simply because I can make it work to my advantage.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Claw Hama

Hi Woodwould, if you want to try the progressive pitch I can drop it in a bag and send it down.

PM sent (or will be in a moment).

Originally Posted by Claw Hama

If I have another made which I'm considering, I would have it go from 16 - 11 maybe the 9 at the heel is a whisker course.

Now that's interesting! I wouldn't really want 9 TPI for anything other than ripping boards, but a 14" back saw, filed rip, with 16 - 11 (or even 12) TPI would be tempting.

I remember reading Derek's excellent review of the Veritas 20ppi dovetail saw before I bought mine, and was more than happy when using it for thinner boards (10-12mm). It fits my hand perfectly, starts easily, and produces a very smooth cut.

Only when I started using some thicker boards did the limitations become apparent (too slow).....so I went out and got the 14ppi as well.....

In almost all cutting characteristics these two are chalk and cheese - these days I realise straight away if I start using the wrong one for the given thickness of timber. For my skill level these saws are more than adequate; plus, you can get the pair for about the price of a single LN saw.

One day I may just get the matching Veritas crosscut dovetail saw just to complete the set, even though it doesn't get much use during dovetailing (just the outside edges of the tail board). If LN have their progressive pitch saw at the next handtool event (Sturt) I'd be interested to give it a go, but I'm not good enough to do a saw like that justice just yet.

I would suggest you give it a go but these are saws that you need to use a little to get the hang of them. They are pretty aggresive but once you know them you're right.

All this aroused my curiousity. I got hold of a few dovetail saws (a couple of them mine) and measured the thickness of the blades.
My new Pax is just under 20 thou about .018"
Three others, a Disston, a Suffolk and a Tyzack were all .020". The Tyzack was the strangest as I could have sworn it was thinner than the rest.
I also measured a no name, no set, gentleman's saw I bought in the days when the hardware shops sold you tools to do the job and not a particular brand. it's about 25 or more tpi and came in at .010". Great for trimming veneer.
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by Woodwould

If pushing the envelope is your forté, then you may want to consider a thin-bladed saw to achieve those dovetail pins with diminishing points that seem to be the current benchmark of Extreme Cabinetmaking.

The kerf from a "standard" thickness LN dovetail kerf is only .025". I seriously doubt if anyone could tell if I used a thin-plate or standard-plate saw as the kerf if only .005" smaller.

Occasionally, I like to cut tails but a sawkerf apart. The problem then becomes one of marking the pins. I lashed out and bought a fancy thin-plate marking knife because my marking knife of choice wont fit. The new knife sure does look nice, but it's so thin that it would rather follow the grain than the side of the tail. it's bloody well useless.

Anyone want to buy a thin-kerf Blue Spruce marking knife?

Of course none of this dribble answers the question at hand. Buy the standard .020" plate saw. They're both 15TPI, and have the same set. Therefore the resultant cut surface will be exactly the same. The standard plate saw will be slightly more robust and stand up to abuse better.

Originally Posted by Too Many Clamps

The kerf from a "standard" thickness LN dovetail kerf is only .025". I seriously doubt if anyone could tell if I used a thin-plate or standard-plate saw as the kerf if only .005" smaller.

Occasionally, I like to cut tails but a sawkerf apart. The problem then becomes one of marking the pins. I lashed out and bought a fancy thin-plate marking knife because my marking knife of choice wont fit. The new knife sure does look nice, but it's so thin that it would rather follow the grain than the side of the tail. it's bloody well useless.

Presactly!

Originally Posted by Too Many Clamps

Occasionally, I like to cut tails but a sawkerf apart. The problem then becomes one of marking the pins. I lashed out and bought a fancy thin-plate marking knife because my marking knife of choice wont fit. The new knife sure does look nice, but it's so thin that it would rather follow the grain than the side of the tail. it's bloody well useless.

I've never had a problem with a thin bladed knife. As with knifing any line, one needs to start with fine pressure, and then deepen it with several knife strokes (rather than a single deep stroke).

No problem with "standard" saw plates ...



For London-style dovetails, with a thin plate saw (which is even thinner than the knife blade), I use the saw blade to transfer marks ...



Regards from Perth

Derek