Thread: What a load of rubbish!

On J saws loosing teeth, I have in fact popped a great many off my saws over the years.

They must be treated with love and care, but then again a few missing teeth doesn't seem to affect them at all.

Japan Woodworker Japan Woodworker - Hand Tools, Gardening, and Fine Cutlery - Woodcraft (now owned by Woodcraft) used to sell a range of saws optimised for hardwoods -- but they are almost certainly not designed for use with Aussie hardwoods.

Like others, I tend to use push stroke saws when working with larger sections, but know of at least one local (to Calgary) woodworker who uses a pull saw when cutting tenons in the ends of 12 and 14 inch timbers.

Talking of rubbish, and saws... I still can't believe this wasn't an "April fools" video. Start at 3:30 for why saws with a tapered height saw blade are superior to straight cut parallel ones.

I was tossing up whether to post this in WP's "what saw to get" thread, but thought it may be taken seriously.

That looks like a " Add a feature then invent a problem that it solves" video.
Did you like how the "old" versions of the plane and saw were tarnished to make the LN versions look better.

Originally Posted by LanceC

... I still can't believe this wasn't an "April fools" video....

Groaaan..... Your right Lance, it does look a bit like LN's attempt to outdo Lee Valley on April 1st!

Where do I start? There was no explanation of how the canted (I prefer to call that particular taper a "cant" to distinguish it from a taper of the blade thickness), blade is supposed to help you hit the line on the far side. In fact, if anything it should make it harder. If the tooth line is parallel with the spine, which you can easily watch, then by keeping that horizontal you'll hit the line back & front simultaneously. Judging whether the tooth line is horizontal from a canted spine is surely less intuitive!

Sawing to the rear line is something I struggled with at first, with any saw. I'd say, provided the saw is reasonably sharp & set, the major aid to accurate sawing is simply practice.

That said, there are a few things you can do to help yourself. The first thing is to place the job in the vise at a height so that when you hold the saw comfortably & 'naturally', the toothline is roughly horizontal. For most of us, that will be with your wrist in a 'neutral' position, neither rotated up nor down wrt your forearm. That way you'll saw "level" almost by default. Now precisely what height the job will be depends on the hang-angle of the saw - the more 'vertical' the handle, the higher up you need to hold the saw to have the teeth horizontal. The LN saw has a higher hang-angle than I prefer for this job, and our demonstrator put the sawing point low down in the vice, which allowed him to hold the saw 'naturally' and have the teeth horizontal.

That's fine for you young fellas who can still see that far, but chronologically-challenged optics like mine need things up close & personal. I set the cutting point at around elbow height so to hold the saw horizontal I need a more upright handle. My favourite D/T saw does have a canted back, as a matter of fact, but purely because I like the look, not for any perceived ergonomic advantage, it's the angle of the grip that makes cutting to te rear line easy. I have similar saws with straight backs & slightly different hang angles but provided I place the cutting points appropriately, I'll take bets that I can saw to the back line spot-on 8 out of 10 times with these too, without watching the exit side.

Nobody of sound mind would stand there pondering all this every time they pick up a saw! It's just something that comes with practice; you know intuitively where to place things for the best/most comfortable/most accurate sawing, just as you automatically reach for an appropriate size & pitch of saw (if you have a choice) and you unconsciously adjust the stroke to the length of the saw you're using. I'd been using saws successfully enough for at least 40 yeas before it ever occurred to me to analyze the process in any way.

And that bit of BS about over-cutting causing sloppy joints & wracking?!! Somebody tell 'im it's the side cuts that matter, mate! Small over-cuts are neither here nor there structurally, I always advise a newbie (as I was advised) to cut from the show side so that the joint will at least look neat on one side. Anyone who has repaired old drawers will know it was fairly common practice to deliberately over-cut half-lap D/T sockets by miles at the back in order to minimise the amount of uncut area on the sides & speed up waste removal. The tails still fitted firmly, and most I've come across were still perfectly sound after many years of being pulled & pushed around. Our woodwork teacher was an old-school cabinetmaker who showed us the method but made it clear to us he thought it was sloppy technique, though I reckon if I'd been banging out drawers all day every day I'd have been sorely tempted to do the same.

Nah, that video has to be an 'April-firster'....
Cheers,
Ian

Originally Posted by IanW

I prefer to call that particular taper a "cant" to distinguish it from a taper of the blade thickness

Good one. I ran through a couple of iterations trying not use use "taper", cut couldn't settle on a suitable term, hence the verbal spaghetti. Now we have one.

Originally Posted by IanW

Sawing to the rear line is something I struggled with at first, with any saw. I'd say, provided the saw is reasonably sharp & set, the major aid to accurate sawing is simply practice.

Using a handsaw is still new enough for me to marvel at how without bothering to check, I can just saw to the line, and trust that the blind side will be on the line too (mostly). Like you said, all it takes is practice.

O Dear,

I’m thinking about quoting him, on fixing the bench so is docent rack as much.

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

The Timbercon advice is contrary to my understanding of how JP saws perform. I had thought that the tall teeth (they are steeper than the 60° of Western saws) were not suited to the more dense timbers as their strength is reduced. Particularly as they are coupled with the thinner plates possible with a pull action.



Regards
Paul

As far as I know Paul that Japan has more softwoods than hardwoods. I know they prefer softwoods over hardwoods as it is easier to work with and I'm inclined to agree with you on your assumption.

Originally Posted by NCArcher

That looks like a " Add a feature then invent a problem that it solves" video.
Did you like how the "old" versions of the plane and saw were tarnished to make the LN versions look better.

This is like those daytime TV ads for gadgets that are sold on the basis that, if e.g. a kitchen knife, you're cutting tomatoes and next thing you've sliced your jugular (plausible right?) that's why you need the 18-piece TV-marketing ceramic knife set; or you clean your floor with a mop and bucket and next thing the bucket's tipped up and drowned the cat while the mop snagged on the stove and started a house fire, that's why you need a steam mop. Pity Timbecon has stooped to that level.

Originally Posted by LanceC

Talking of rubbish, and saws... I still can't believe this wasn't an "April fools" video. Start at 3:30 for why saws with a tapered height saw blade are superior to straight cut parallel ones.

I was tossing up whether to post this in WP's "what saw to get" thread, but thought it may be taken seriously.

It's salespeople like him that make my blood boil. A newbie wouldn't have a clue to pick up on the BS, but seasoned woodworkers who use hand tools would. It's people like that degrades a respected business such as Lie Nielsen is. The salesman is someone that I haven't seen before so I'm assuming he's relatively new to the job and most probably trying to make an impression and collect as many commissions as he can before he flees. I would call him a quick buck cheap backyard car salesman and he needs to be removed from his position because people like that don't ever change.

I get a vague feeling you didn't like that video, section1.....

Originally Posted by IanW

I get a vague feeling you didn't like that video, section1.....

I think your assumption is spot on.

I don't get it.

He stated a problem, exaggerated TV-ad style, showing that "looking behind" the cut is required... 6 times per cut, apparently.

Then he states that the sloped saw plate solves this "problem".

How?

Did I miss something? Did the video skip ahead a full minute? Was something chopped out in editing?


Reminds me of the Rockwell Encabulator advertisement. I still want an Encabulator. Its the only brand, that I'm aware of, that solves the problem of using six hydrocoptic marzlevanes.

When he clamped the workpiece in the vice at 2:45, I just wish he’d put it straight. I wonder if he had a better eye for what’s level and square if he might not have needed the ‘tapered’ blade to cut to the line.