Thread: What a load of rubbish!

Five years ago I purchased a large pile of rough sawn QLD redgum to make my kitchen benchtops. The planks averaged 1-1/" thick and were very dry but a professionally sharpened 22" Disston filed for crosscut breezed through them; better than a brand new Spear & Jackson hardpoint saw. My first inroad into saw sharpening was on an unknown 4-1/2 TPI rip that likewise had no issue cutting through that timber; it was tiring but that was 90% due to me making the standard rookie error of applying too much set to the teeth...

I have a couple of Japanese-style pull saws that are very good for making thin-kerf cross cuts but I find I get much better precision with Western push saws. And at least I can sharpen those; when my Jap ones eventually blunt out they'll probably have to be binned.

As a fairly new woodworker (particularly with hand tools l, I'm going to say that quote is the biggest load of rubbish. Wouldn't be surprised if that's because Timbecon no longer have access to Veritas products.

In my limited experience I've found that Japanese saws are easier to use, but also easier to destroy. On the other hand once you've used either for any decent amount of time both work equally well, but definitely prefer western saws for their ergonomics.

I also received that email. Also totally disagree and false guidance to newcomer.
I have both style saws and still consider myself as a hand tool novice.

So I am using both type of saws and choose them for different tasks or purposes. But so far type of timber has jot been any reason why I choose one saw over the other.

In fact I am mainly using the western saws although I am using more and more Australian hardwoods.

The only thing I found is that the tooth geometry has an influence on how the saw works. And that can easily be changed on a western resharpenable saw.

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How many Australian level hardwoods do they have in Japan I wonder?

Yeah saw that email and added it to the mental list of why loads of stuff on the internet is BS.

FWIW I use both push and pull saws, I use the pull saws for small work probably because I don't have any small push saws. Have gone through 2 pull blades in 15 years - I guess that's not too bad.

That's not the only bit of dubious wisdom to come from Timbecon. I stopped watching their product videos as several have similar assertions.

I don’t understand you Blokes hear,

If one of Australia’s suppliers to the Australian wood work Hobby industry, says Japanese saws are better than western saws, well of course they must be.

Japan’s have been making great tools for centuries.

Gosh get a grip guys[emoji6].

Cheers Matt.

Who are all these American youtubers using Western saws? From my observations Japanese saws are the go to for most of them.

Cheers Andrew

My experience of Japanese timbers are they are very soft, no different than those from "America".

Again, this is my experience with the Japanese planes I have. They are utterly unbelievable on softwoods, but our hard stuff? Sheeeeezzz I can't get them to work. BUT, then the Veritas second-handies I have are magical on those hard timbers.

I have some oak and gum. Far out is it hard. My J planes couldn't touch it, but the V scrubber, #7 and jack.... wowsers. Nice. I did a fair bit of merbau for my mini-bench last week and the V planes were an absolute pleasure to use on this bastard timber.

I feel my handsaws are the same. I'm using some Merbau. The J saws CUT it, but getting a good sharp straight line was pretty hard. I'm acquiring a few good handsaw (tenon, carcase?) soon to see how that goes.

I love to use old recycled hardwoods, many of them over 100 years since they were trees. A lot of this stuff is extremely hard.

Believe me - Japanese saws are not the thing to use on them.

Its called we need a gimmick to sell our products, because unlike days gone by ( the old Timbecon ) every thing we sell is available elsewhere for less money

One positive might be that the price of eastern saws goes up because they are more "desirable" thus seeing the price drop for those "now" 2nd rate western saws!

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

One positive might be that the price of eastern saws goes up because they are more "desirable" thus seeing the price drop for those "now" 2nd rate western saws!

Dunno, MA. I'm not in the market for either type, I managed to find or luck into all the hand saws I need/want quite a while ago (6 cover my needs nicely ), and I have one or two back saws more than I need , so I'm definitely out of it!

I wonder if another surge in popularity in Japanese saws is about to occur? The first surge was in the late 60s/early 70s, which coincided with a sudden revival of interest in hand crafts of all types amongst my generation. It also coincided with a rapid demise of skill in saw sharpening, and I think one reason for the Japanese saws' popularity was that they came very sharp, lasted pretty well & you just threw the blade away & got another when it was blunt (which has always been anathema to me!).

I read somewhere recently that COVID has restored some of our "home" time & encouraged a new wave of interest in DIY & handcrafts generally. The pool of good old Western back saws on the market has diminished substantially since the 70s, and the new breed of throwaway back saws is painfully inferior to Japanese saws of roughly the same price. So if there is a big upsurge of interest in w'working amongst the younger set, they will be looking for decent saws. I think I would be recommending Japanese saws to a beginner who has no access to a "real" saw, or ability to restore/sharpen an oldie if they did manage to get hold of one. Better to get started with something that works out of the box, if you are a newbie.

If a beginner asks me for an opinion on which is best, I always recommend they just go with what they think seems more intuitive to them. Starting out with push saws, which I'm totally rusted onto, is fine if you can get a decent one & learn how to maintain it, but if you begin with pull saws, you'll soon become adapted to that sawing style and push saws will seem strange. Either saw/style is capable of doing a perfectly adequate job. The Japanese saws did get a bit of a reputation for losing teeth in our hardwoods in the early days. I haven't heard/read of any complaints in that respect for a while, so maybe that's been solved?

What I do know very clearly is that a dull and poorly-set saw of any description is not nice to use and likely to discourage any beginner. I think it's easier to learn to sharpen a western saw with their simpler tooth geometry, so if you want always-sharp saws, and particularly the ability to tune them to your own tastes, and prepared to put an effort into learning how, they're the ones to go for. If I put my mind to it I'm sure I could learn to sharpen a (re-sharpenable) Japanese saw, but I'm very unlikely to try because if I switched saw styles, I'll have a double learning-curve to climb. At my advancing age & stage, I don't think I could manage both....

Cheers,
Ian

I on the other hand struggle to let a bargain go by.