Thread: Saw Logo

Picko

I'm afraid the Warranted Superior medallions were ubiquitous, and it is very difficult to identify the maker from just that. Do you have any signs of an etch on the saw plate itself?

The Americans tended to use an eagle as the centerpiece, while the British used a crown, but without further information we can only say it is likely an American product. having said that I read that some british manufacturers may have also put an eagle on their WS medallions for the export market to the US.

I think there may be a reference somewhere to a range of WS medallions as far as the variety goes, but it still does not identify the manufacturer or owner (not the same thing). Perhaps somebody else can supply a link as I can't recall where I have seen it.

Regards
Paul

Thanks Paul, I had a feeling that this was the case but thought there may have been some small differences that could be picked by the trained eye. I haven't cleaned the saw up yet, so who knows, there may be an etch to be found.
The handle has my grandfathers stamp on it, so it would date pre 1960 when he passed. It's a nice little saw (8pt x 24" blade) so I'll clean it up, fix the cracked handle and put it to use. If I find anything of interest I'll let you know.

Looks like THIS saw; not that it helps with the maker but it does give a clearer view of the medallion and also identifies the saw as the same size as yours (24” 8TPI)

The author believes it may have been a Disston; their logo appears to have commonly included the shield and the trio of arrows clutched in one of the claws.

Thanks Chief, the handle is much plainer than the disstons. I'll get back to you after a clean up.

Hi Picko,

You could have a look on the Time Tested Tools web site at their article on Medallions

through this address A Zoological Look At Handsaw Medallions | TimeTestedTools

it could shed some light on your saws' origin.

Graham.

The rust has been removed, the handle repaired and the saw has been sharpened. No etch, as expected as it appears to be a budget level tool, but it's a good intermediate size saw and should get some use.
P1010024.jpg

The rip saw was in need of the same attention, so I did it at the same time.

P1010025.jpg

Nice, Picko, good to see these old workhorses groomed & put back in harness....

The fullsome shaping on the "thumb-hole" saw indicates pre-WW2 manufacture whilst the sharper-edged, less-shapely handle on the smaller saw says post WW2 to me, but perhaps they didn't take much trouble with 2nd-tier saws & it's older than I think?

I don't know, & have never read anything convincing about the real differences between top-tier & 2nd tier saws do it remains rather vague to me. I did read somewhere that the saw plate was the same stuff, it was just that they took less trouble with the overall finish. So functionally, a second tier saw should be as good as any other saw from its era. One thing's for sure, it will be a quantum advance on a plastic-handled saw-like thing from the Green Shed.......

Cheers

Originally Posted by IanW

One thing's for sure, it will be a quantum advance on a plastic-handled saw-like thing from the Green Shed.......
Cheers

Hear, hear! I've never been desparate enough to have to buy one but I did once attempt to cut something with one that someone handed me (terrible thing).

Originally Posted by IanW

The fullsome shaping on the "thumb-hole" saw indicates pre-WW2 manufacture

Yeah, the old boy must have done a lot of ripping because that was his second, the first was sharpened to within 1/2 an inch or so of it's life.

Originally Posted by IanW

Nice, Picko, good to see these old workhorses groomed & put back in harness....

The fullsome shaping on the "thumb-hole" saw indicates pre-WW2 manufacture whilst the sharper-edged, less-shapely handle on the smaller saw says post WW2 to me, but perhaps they didn't take much trouble with 2nd-tier saws & it's older than I think?

I don't know, & have never read anything convincing about the real differences between top-tier & 2nd tier saws do it remains rather vague to me. I did read somewhere that the saw plate was the same stuff, it was just that they took less trouble with the overall finish. So functionally, a second tier saw should be as good as any other saw from its era. One thing's for sure, it will be a quantum advance on a plastic-handled saw-like thing from the Green Shed.......

Cheers

Ian

The difference between the top saws and the secondary lines is a little grey. As you say much was to do with the cosmetics. In that regard the level of polish on the plate was frequently less on the secondary lines and the handle was made from a less desirable timber. So Beech was used for the lower levels and Apple for the top grades. Except in the Uk beech was pretty much universal. Carving on the handles tended to be on the high end. However, the most expensive saw of all time, Atkins 400/401 range had no wheat carving and just a plain old handle, albeit in Brazilian Rosewood with a "piano" finish and the very understated "Perfection" handle!

On the practical side, a high end saw tended to have more saw screws, but this was tendency and not an absolute defining feature. Possibly the biggest difference was taper grinding which only was applied at the top end. Other small features at the top end, might have included progressive teeth on rip saws and possibly a breasted tooth line. There it should be mentioned that just because a Disston D8 rip, such as you have, had a progressive tooth pattern, it does not mean that feature continued for all the life of that model. In fac,t I think it discontinued once machine sharpening direct from the factory took hold.

The Simonds range, where they had three levels, demonstrates a little of the above. The first grade saws with the Simonds name had most of the features I have described. The secondary line, marketed under the Bay State name, differed really only in a Birch handle and the third level lacked taper grinding.

Regards
Paul

Warranted Superior saws can, often, be quite good, although you never know until you sharpen them and find a piece of wood to saw.

Much better than the less common Warranted Mediocre saws - which are nearly impossible to find, having been thrown into the river by frustrated would-be sawyers.

It's funny you should mention Atkins Paul because it's not a name I've seen over the years until a panel saw ended up in my possession from my dad's stuff, and it was the next one in my sights for some attention. Not sure what I can do with the handle, it's pretty sad.
P1010028.jpg

A taper-less blade would certainly relegate any saw to a lower tier, imo, though tensioning probably does the most for the "feel" of a saw. Compared with the (near-mint) Canadian D8 I acquired years ago, the untapered, poorly-tensioned (if they are tensioned at all?) things with handles that look like they were stamped out with a cookie cutter, produced from around the 60s on, seem so lifeless and soul-less to me. I can live happily enough with beech handles, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with beech, it starts out a bit bland, but acquires an acceptable 'patina' in time.

Thank goodness there are a few amateurs & still an occasional pro like Mountain Ash prepared to put in the time to learn to fettle & care for the diminishing number of good old saws that are left. At least those that fall into the right hands will enjoy a respectful old age & not suffer the indignity of being painted with some kitschy scene & hung on a wall....

Cheers,

Picko, the handle of that saw looks in pretty rough shape alright, but is probably repairable. It is pretty easy to graft on new horns & blend them in, the bigger problem will be the crack - years of oil & dirt will have got in there & no glue will get a good grip without a very thorough cleaning, which will be very difficult to do.

It looks remarkably like a Disston D-20 handle: Disston D20 handle Mk II.jpg

- those sawmakers must have spent half their time checking the other makers' products & making sure they had matching lines for everything!

I got a lovely handle-less D-20 panel saw blade form Paul some years ago. I didn't have much to go on other than a faint shadow of the cheeks of the old handle on the blade, and some pictures on the Disstonian site, so I had to make it up as I went along. I'm happy enough with the handle I cobbled up, though the wood is very un-traditional (black wattle): BW handle c.jpg

It has turned out a lovely little saw that has become one of my favoutites - really handy for light ripping jobs...

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Picko

It's funny you should mention Atkins Paul because it's not a name I've seen over the years until a panel saw ended up in my possession from my dad's stuff, and it was the next one in my sights for some attention. Not sure what I can do with the handle, it's pretty sad.
P1010028.jpg

Picko

With only three saw screws I am anticipating that it is a panel saw (ie. 24" saw plate or less). The shorter saws usually had one less saw screw than their brethren at 26" or longer. If that handle were a beast it would be described as "polled" in that it is hornless. Coupled with that large crack I think that is a perfect candidate for a new handle that replicates the shape, but in a timber of your choice. That is the "Perfection" handle, which I particularly like (just a personal preference) and was copied in some models by both Disston and Simonds.

The rather simplistic and sloppy definition of the medallion indicates a saw from the later years. If there is an etch it may have a reference to Borg Warner, who took control of the saw division in 1952. By 1966 the Nicholson File company had control and made saws with the Nicholson name before discontinuing Atkins completely.

Regards
Paul