Thread: low angle jack plain for gray elm

No, no, no, no, no! :eek:

Low angle on elm is guaranteed failure! It will tear-out all by itself if it just SEES you reaching for a low angle plane. Very temperamental.

You want a York pitch or even higher. Of course, as the bevel is up on the LN l-a Jack, you could regrind the main bevel to something steeper. Alternatively, buy a second cutter for this purpose and leave the orginal set at 25. The size, however (jack plane) is acceptable. Bit larger, read 'heavier,' would be my choice, if only to reduce the amount of downward force needed from my arms with a York pitch

Whatever plane you use, use a steep pitch and a very tight mouth.

Elm is an exceptionally fibrous, brittle wood. It's gawd-awful beautiful when smoothed and finished with a penetrating finish, but darned difficult to work by hand. It's tough on edges, too. Keep your honing gear nearby and use it frequently. Use it before you think you need to. Otherwise, the wood will tell you, 'Oops! Too late! Should've honed after that last pass!'

I did a friend's kitchen cabinets in elm (his choice, not mine). The effect was radiant and I wish I had done that work for myself. I'm told it is very durable outdoors, though I can't honestly say I can verify this claim. It is only moderately stable with humidity changes, but this is controlled better by sealing all sides (including inside and underside) with your selected finish, assuming you're using something other than wax.

But as to using handtools on it, I'd rate it 2nd worst wood to work with. 1st would be lignum vitae, which adds masses of wax and interlocking grain to the mix.

Of course, I haven't worked with EVERY wood out there...

By the way, how'd you come by American Elm? It's not all that readily available here in The States to begin with. Is yours plantation grown locally?

Just curious. Enjoy the results, which I'm sure you will!

Cheers!

------------------
Edit: 14NOV05 23:45 US CDT

I called up the fellow woodworker in Phoenix that told me elm was durable outdoors. Since I said it was supposed to be such, I decided to check my source again. Yes, it is, but only in the sense of things like tables and chairs or clapboards. Gotta keep it off the soil at all times. Not at all good for pickets and fence posts, or anywhere that soil will get splashed up onto it. It will decay rather quickly from bacterial attack under those circumstances. Otherwise, it holds up to rain and shine, provided a suitable finish is applied and maintained.

Don't know if that's your intended purpose (outdoors, I mean), but given the effort to work this species, my preference is to keep the finished product indoors in a controlled environment.

if the wood is subject to tear out, an HNT Gordon wooden plane may be the answer see: www.htngordon.com.au

Regards
Timgsw

The LN or LV LA jack would be eminently suitable for your purpose only if used with a cutting angle of 60 -62 degrees. This is one of the beaut things about bevel up planes, choice of angle.

Thans for the help. To pond jumper gray elm is avalible at Australian Furnitur Timbers here in Melbourne. (free plug ) I think thay inport it from the states.

Now for the big question . The low angle jack or the low angle smoother :confused:

Originally Posted by kats1719

Now for the big question . The low angle jack or the low angle smoother :confused:

I went through a similar quandry and ended up with the Leigh Valley LA smoother, which can also be used on a shooting board. (Not the bevel up smoother which is a dedicated smoother only)
I suggest that you have a look at some of the reviews that Derek Cohen has done on these planes.
Of course if I had the dough I'd have the full range of bevel up planes.

After looking at some of Derec Cohen posts I think it is the low angle jack for me from lie Nielsen. Thanks for all the help and advice.

After looking at some of Derec Cohen posts I think it is the low angle jack for me from lie Nielsen.

Chris

You read a review of mine on the LV LA Jack and conclude you want to buy the LN LA Jack!!:eek: What on Earth did I say!

Kidding aside, you are aware that these two planes are quite different?

Regards from Perth

Derek

LV or LN wood do the job Derek in your opinion whitch is the more verstile thay will both do the job on the gray elm.

I know I'm not Derek but personally I favour Lee Valley. Various reasons, among which the LV is cheaper and yet is still very high quality and from my experience does a fine job.

Hello Rob

in your opinion whitch is the more verstile

Without going into a long review/discussion, based on my experiences (mainly with the LV and the Stanley version) and readings (many, many discussions on other forums), the LV LA Jack is generally preferred as it is more user-friendly overall.

The LV LA Jack is essentially equivalent to a #5-1/2 size, while the LN LA Jack is a #5 size. So the LV is longer and heavier. This is a big factor when planing particularly gnarly timber.

The LV has the superior blade adjustment set up, while some prefer the tote of the LN (others do not see this to be an issue).

The lower price of the LV is attractive to many, but not really the issue. Both are extremely well made. By reputation, the LN has the edge, but only just.

I know several who have sold their LN versions to buy the LV.

While the following review is about comparing the LV and LN LA Smoothers, there are points you will find helpful (since they reflect the underlying design philosophy):
http://www.traditionaltools.us/LJM/lasmoother.htm

Regards from Perth

Derek

Not that you need it, but I concur: LV. My primary reasoning is weight. When you move to a steep pitch of 50 or higher, there must needs be a reason for it, yes? The reason is the wood needs that higher pitch to force the fibers to break much sooner than they would on a low pitch, thus reducing or eliminating tear-out.

But with that goes the need to keep the plane flat on the surface, all the time. A low angle will tend to "dig under" the fiber and pull itself against the surface. A steep pitch will want to "dig under" much less, so you have to push the plane down as you push it forwards. In spots, in some really gnarly grain, it may even have a tendency to "pop up" over the grain.

Unless you're using a really heavy plane.

While it may not sound like a big deal to lean onto your plane, your shoulders will let you know very quickly that yes, it is a big deal. And if you don't keep up the force over time, you run a greater risk of a bit of tear-out here and there. Lateral pressure is one thing; your back and legs get involved. But downward pressure is all in the shoulders and upper arms as you effectively "lift" yourself a little of the floor.

Termite suggests 60-62 degrees. That is certainly a good starting point, and depending on your particular piece of lumber, you may actually need more or less. My own experience with a 50 degree York pitch infill smoothing plane yielded wonderful results, but I was also taking shavings in the 2 to 3 thousandths of an inch. Start with the 60 degrees as Terminte suggests, but remember 2 things:

The higher the pitch, the more vertical force you have to use. This is where a heavier plane keeps you from getting overly tired to the point you accidentally ruin your piece of lumber.

The higher the pitch, the more lateral force you have to use. This is where a good bench, a solid floor, shoes that grip well, and a little leg exercise will help.

So if you've decided on a l-a jack, then I agree with what's been said. The LV is the way to go. Other features are always important, but since you'll be modifying the cutter for a high pitch, then weight is also an important factor to getting good results.

Let us have a photo when you're done!

Once again thanks for the help everyone where is the best place to by an LV derect from Lee Valley or Carbatec. Carbatec has the low angle jack for $299

The dollar is pretty low at the moment but when I bought my LV LA smoother I got the plane + high anglr blade + airmail for AU$280.00 direct from Lee Valley.