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  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Luban 5 1/2 - A review (sort of)

    I'm going to preface this with - I'm not a complete novice when it comes to hand planes, but hardly an expert either, so if I do have any incorrect information herein, please feel free to correct me.

    My first consideration, to buy Luban or not to buy? I like lovely tools as much as the next guy but the price of Lie Nielsens in Australia make me go hmmmm. AUD735 for a 5 1/2. The Luban, depending on where you buy it from is about AUD299. So I says to myself, how bad could it be? I've got a Luban block plane and a shoulder plane and they're pretty good. The shoulder plane needed the edges relieved a bit, but the important bits worked perfectly fine out of the box.

    So as you may have already guessed, I bought one. And I'm quite happy that I did.

    I didn't take photos of the box - nothing fancy there, it's in the bin. The plane comes sealed in a plastic bag - shop towel with WD40 on it cleaned up the oily surfaces - the oil wasn't the terribly sticky type. The machining and surface finish is nice, it's better than their block or shoulder planes for sure. The sole is flat, sides are at 90 degrees to the sole. Depth adjuster spins easily and there isn't much backlash and the lateral adjuster can make fine adjustments. The front knob did rotate a little, it took about 1/16th of a turn to tighten it down. Both it and the handle are smooth and feel good in the hand.

    taken apart.jpg frog.jpg bottom.jpg iron.jpg

    The blade is ground to 25 degrees. The back of the blade was flat and the bottom centimetre was polished in a few minutes. Which was great because I have spent way too much of my time fixing older blades (when I should probably have just junked them). The bevel was honed in no time as well. The cap iron got a hone, both the back and the bevel side. I hand sharpen using Paul Seller's method and the factory grinds were pretty even so both were done in about 5 minutes total, if memory serves. The short story is it didn't take long at all for the blade to pass the all important shaving arm hairs test. No idea what type of steel it is but it is definitely not as hard as the Veritas A2 or HNT Gordon HSS. I think the only description I've seen is 'high carbon steel'. Cap iron set to a hair's width from the edge and... on to the only really important part. Does it cut wood?

    Why yes, yes it does.

    I didn't pretend I was at a wood show and chose to plane the narrow edge of a straight grained piece of timber. Oh no, we went for the figured Tasmanian Oak that had tearout from a helical head jointer and a spiral head thicknesser. I didn't want to make the photos too huge but I hope you can see the tearout left behind.

    tearout.jpg

    The plane is really very nice to use, it engages with the wood in a very positive manner. It's hard to describe but nothing feels sloppy or hesitant. Part of it might be the mass, which is both a positive and a negative. This thing is a lot heavier in the hand than 'vintage' planes but I could totally get used to it. The test board is a bookmatched panel with figuring and some defects. And the test was no problem at all. After not very many minutes, the surface was pristine. Full length, full width shavings. The second two photos are the board wiped with turps.

    planed board.jpg board with turps.jpg closeup with turps.jpg

    Maybe it's because I'm not an expert, but I don't see how I could improve on this surface finish. Zero tearout, smooth as glass. It was so much fun I glued up another bookmatched panel from the same board and left the bandsaw marks. That panel also got taken from rough bandsawn face to pristine in very short order. Both panels were also jointed on the glue edge with the 5 1/2, as you can see, lovely tight join. While the glue on the second panel was drying, I tried the plane out on a piece of spotted gum with plenty of fiddle back and reversing grain and no surprise it cleaned it up like it was no big deal. The depth adjuster is easy to use on the fly and does allow for quite fine adjustments. The lateral adjuster didn't move after being set.

    So any cons? It's heavy. Maybe the blade could be a more modern steel like PMV-11. Maybe I'll find more cons through use but so far, it's great. I like it enough that I've ordered a #4 as well.

    Edit:

    Reverse of the panel above planed with a Veritas #4, A2 blade about 30 degree bevel. Finish off the Luban is just as good, I can't tell the difference by sight or touch.
    veritas 4.jpg

    And some spotted gum that has some lovely tearout.
    spotted gum.jpg

    Cleaned up in about 5 minutes. Did have to sharpen for the final passes to get a glassy smooth finish. On the plus side it only takes a couple of minutes to get the blade razor sharp and back in the plane. The cap iron is very stiff so once you're holding it X distance from the edge of the blade, it stays there when you screw it down.
    spotted gum planed.jpg

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  3. #2
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    Hi A. I have often wondered about this brand. Thanks for the thread. Seems like it does what it's supposed too. Most of us using hand planes aren't using them for 8 hours a day so I think the extra mass is probably a bonus. Aren't the Lubans also sold as Woodriver planes in the USA? And heavily promoted by Rob Cosman?

  4. #3
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    Yes, the Woodriver are made by Luban/Quangsheng. I do remember reading that the Woodriver planes may have some subtle differences but I don't own any Woodrivers to compare with. Rob Cosman does indeed promote them and sells them on his website. Jim Davey sells the Woodrivers in Australia.

  5. #4
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    Nice write up You say it's much heavier than a vintage plane (I'm asssuming Stanley) Can you give me a weight? I've got a 5 1/2 here that I love using and I'm curious about the weight difference.
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

  6. #5
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    According to McJings website the 5-1/2 weighs 2.6kg, but the 4-1/2 weighs 3kg. They reckon a standard 5 weighs 3.2kg. I note that the new stock that McJing have is $439 for the 5-1/2 compared to the $299 that Timbecon wanted when they had stock. Hope this isn't an indication of a general price rise going forward.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCArcher View Post
    Nice write up You say it's much heavier than a vintage plane (I'm asssuming Stanley) Can you give me a weight? I've got a 5 1/2 here that I love using and I'm curious about the weight difference.
    Thanks - just weighed it at 3257g.

    Quote Originally Posted by aldav View Post
    According to McJings website the 5-1/2 weighs 2.6kg, but the 4-1/2 weighs 3kg. They reckon a standard 5 weighs 3.2kg. I note that the new stock that McJing have is $439 for the 5-1/2 compared to the $299 that Timbecon wanted when they had stock. Hope this isn't an indication of a general price rise going forward.
    Timbecon should be getting stock in next week. Mcjings pricing is a bit odd because the #4 there is cheaper than other places but the #5 1/2 is way more expensive.

  8. #7
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    I just weighed my, I think type 11 Stanley. 2517g and that is with a beefier iron and cap iron from a long ago group buy.
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

  9. #8
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    My type 15 is 2468g. That’s still the 2 1/4” wide one, standard blade etc.

  10. #9
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    All my planes are Luban, they work great and look good.
    I think Luban is a traditional Chinese joinery with no screws/nails? Google says Lu Ban is the Chinese God patron of carpenters and builders.
    I prefer that name than the fake BS western names like Woodriver. These are Chinese tools, probably LN/Ver copies, take it or leave it.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyro View Post
    These are Chinese tools, probably LN/Ver copies, take it or leave it.
    Even older than that, Lubans and LNs are copies of the Stanley Bed Rock design.

  12. #11
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    I have several Luban tools and have been impressed with their consistent quality. My assessment is that they are much better than modern Stanleys and you get 90% of LV/LN quality at less than 50% of price. Their blades are particularly good for 01 steel equivalents (not as good as powdered metal technology).

    In fact my cute little brass #1 smoother is really a go-to plane. The only tool that I am a little disappointed with is the #4 smoother where the knurled brass adjusting nut is awkwardly placed.

  13. #12
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    A little bit of background on Quangsheng tool - I believe those planes were made initially not based on the bedrock design, but rather based on reverse engineering some LN planes. They had bronze or brass lever caps, the same black paint, and interior frog design bits that are in the LN planes and not in bedrocks. Of course, there isn't that much difference between LN's frogs and stanley's frogs, but you can tell which one was copied when you take all three and compare the two.

    At the time back then, Woodcraft was pressuring LN to increase supply, and at the same time, I think LN (they didn't disclose this) was deciding whether or not they wanted to have more control over the retailing, direct people to their website and eliminate gray market sellers so that their retail sellers and their website couldn't be undersold.

    I never heard who it was who sent a plane to China (woodcraft, LN, or someone else), but a store associate at woodcraft (spurious in terms of accuracy - store associates aren't exactly in strategic management) implied that LN was on board in terms of exploring getting some work done in China to increase production. LN is in Maine, and Maine is kind of the last state in the US that would have a business sending anything overseas. Maine is also the kind of place where a business would say "we're making this many, that's it" and you can call all year to motivate them, but they'll do what they want (other retailers who stayed on LN's list of acceptable sellers have kind of said that in the past when I bought planes from them 'well, they said later this fall, but they sort of do whatever they want up there'"

    At any rate, that ultimately fell through, the removal of planes from most woodcrafts was a fairly public thing and woodcraft went with the quangsheng planes and couldn't find any american foundries to get planes cast and then machined. That wasn't a surprise - again, maine is probably the only place where you'd still find off-beat businesses who would cast something like LN's planes and frogs at an acceptable quality level for a price that you could sell to non-busiess customers.

    LN also backed their planes out of other retailers, including those that gray marketed (at the time, it was possible to get 10-15% off of an LN plane and get free shipping from elsewhere. that's all stopped now - you can get free shipping, but that's about it - LN kept the planes in stores/retailers where they felt like they were being acceptably demonstrated). That was another valid concern here at the time - that a lot of the stores (mine included) kept the planes behind glass, and customers would call LN to complain about not being able to try the planes at woodcraft.

    Would the quangsheng planes have been made without that involvement? I doubt it. Maybe later, but at the same quality level? My opinion, I doubt it. The various versions in the US where there was a semi contentious relationship then got "improved" and the last version or next to last that came out, took the style cues out of the plane that looked like LN and made them look more like stanley. Some of the public press at the time was that Rob Cosman "helped them" with improvements. I squint a little bit when I see that. At the same time as Cosman went from LN to woodcraft, he picked up the wood river planes and then sold the "IBC replacements", and those also had some very questionable claims about performance (IBC had their own issues with LV in an arrangement that went awry publicly). Cosman is in business to sell stuff. I think he's a decent guy, but his advice leans toward sales and sales of things he sells and a bit overenthusiastic touting in my opinion (honing potions and such).

    The irons that were in the quangsheng planes early on were T10, which is more similar to 1095 steel than O1. They may still be. Water hardening steel like T10 isn't used much in the US because we don't really do much with blades and files here any longer. In my opinion, it has the potential to be sweeter than O1 (and tougher) and almost as long wearing if it's done to high hardness. When I was researching what files are made of to forge some chisels out of them, I saw literature that some of the chinese files are made out of T12 (same thing, more carbon).

    All that said, I can't think of any stanley or stanley copy other than some very very recent planes that don't work well if they're given some attention, so I'm sure the WR planes work fine. Their original spec for the water hardening steel irons was for a fairly hard temper, so they should work well in woods that are hard, too, though slightly less long wearing than A2. I'd imagine they will rust pretty quickly, just like files (sharpening with oilstones solves that in hurry) and I would personally rather have water hardening steel or O1 than A2.

    WR planes had some quality issues at the outset, but the fact that they're sold against LN and LV here in the states caused those to be addressed pretty quickly. To the extent that some are even heavier than their LN counterparts - I get that kind of spec sheet "improvement", but I sure don't ever use LN planes in a heavy sweat and wish they were heavier (that usually causes me to put the LN planes away and go for something older and lighter).

    I think it's also accurate for LN to reflect on the fact that they did relatively little modification to a stanley design before they get too upset about trade dress issues (whether they did or not, I don't know, that could've been preemptively fixed on LN's part), but it's unlikely that any of the luban/WR whatever brand sprung off of that were first copied from any stanley bedrock plane as the coloration of the metal bits in quangshengs early versions was LN across the board. WR ultimately went with a different lever cap color in the US, but the English retailed planes didn't switch.

  14. #13
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    Hell, DW, and to think that I have been told so many times that Qiangsheng copied Veritas - unscrupulous. But no debate, all parties "reverse engineered" Stanley. Who cares if there were intermediaries - Stanley patents are long expired.

    Found your comments on your dealings with and insights into Lie Nielsen absolutely fascinating - in a voyeristic way! Sort of like Game of Thrones.

    However, I do have difficulties with your timeline on the involvement of Woodcraft, Woodriver and Bob Crossman. Qiangsheng products, under a wide range of "dealer brand" names were readily available in UK, continental Europe, Australasia and Hong Kong, at least, for quite a few years before Woodriver started badge engineering them. You perhaps inadvertently portend to this when you stated "... Some of the public press at the time was that Rob Cosman "helped them" with improvements. I squint a little bit when I see that...." Probably correct; he may have made suggestions to "improve" an existing product. And as you state "...Cosman is in business to sell stuff. I think he's a decent guy, but his advice leans toward sales and sales of things he sells and a bit overenthusiastic touting in my opinion ..." Yep, the only bad publicity is no publicity.... Or he may have gilded the lily as regards his own involvement. Not the first to do that.

  15. #14
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    Yes on other items. The steel planes that were made into woodriver and sold at UK retailers, though, I don't believe they existed in that form. My memory fails as to the exact time that woodcraft and LN parted ways - it was probably 2010? It may have been earlier. I started woodworking around 2005 and the early years are kind of a blur as I just couldn't figure out how I wanted to do it, and I made my first decent tools in 2010 (I have time stamps on those).

    The original woodriver planes were long before cosman involvement in "improving" something, but I remember when the woodriver planes first showed up (they were steel instead of cast iron, and a bit wonky in fit), and someone sent me a PM with the qstool website in it. As you say, there was a lot of stuff that was there from before (as I recall, they had some LV spokeshave copies - again, they're just spokeshaves, but rather than make spokeshaves, they copied LV's color and trim scheme.

    ...and some pull scraping tools, etc, that LV had made - I believe some of those were LV designs.

    Time has marched on quite a bit, but of note was also that the WR planes cost about half as much at the time, and the block planes at QS tool (Which were never sold here) were dead copies of the LN 60 1/2.

    It's a judgement call for everyone. I got a little grief at the time because I mentioned that Woodcraft does have a legitimate interest in selling planes and I never really favored companies who want to dictate price sold at retail and then at the same time, remove access points.

    I agree on cosman. When the next hone rite comes up, or trend lapping fluid, or whatever else - I expect to see an ad, and then I expect to see Rob selling it and telling everyone they *need* it. Just like everyone needs to have a shapton 30k. Whatever rob's selling, it's always "the only one" really worth having. He's never been stiff with me when I questioned anything (i scuffed him at one point a bit about selling $150 china-made diamond honing plates, and he more or less said "I make the same on them as I did on the other stuff I've sold" (dmt), but that could just be part of the strategy. I guess how I see it is whatever way I rolled out of bed.

    I don't do too much shopping with WC or LN at this point (I roll my own, so to speak), but both have never stiffed me or provided bad service.

    (what I saw on the qs tool page went well beyond planes and the LV shave and pullshave copies - there was also a bunch of chisels, from the orangey plastic handled stuff that sells on alibaba for $3 to dead knock off copies of stanley fat max. Nothing at all on their page wasn't a copy of something else, though).

  16. #15
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    There is one other part of this that we don't have to deal with in the states, too. LN and LV planes really aren't *that* expensive here. They're expensive to a wage worker who is just keeping up with bills, but compared to what you get charged halfway around the world, we've got it pretty easy.

    I also don't believe that if there is some trade issue in the US that folks in the UK or Australia should care that much as a whole. It's apparently pretty easy to get fake Gibson guitars in England, etc, and I always get a little bit of a chuckle when the comments are filled with "you should be ashamed of yourself" on youtube when an Englishman shows off his shiny new copy guitar.

    I doubt many Americans would care that much if someone had a fake Burns guitar.

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