Thread: what makes a water stone a water stone?

A waterstone has weaker 'glue', so you get lots of fresh abrasive to do the cutting so they work faster, but last for a shorter time.

An oil stone has stonger glue, so they don't cut as fast, but last forever, well almost...

That's the big difference I think, one wears faster and cuts faster, the other wears slower and lasts longer.

I can't think of any reason why you couldn't use water with an oil stone, other than it might/will cut differently which may be good or bad.

If the old stone you have is natural (Arkansas, yes natural), I wouldn't want to go messing with it too much. The carbonundum is synthetic, so using water isn't big thing since a new one is cheap and readily available.

Since the waterstones do wear faster, and water is (still) cheaper than oil, they match each other rather well. You need lots of water to keep them clean and cutting, but oilstones don't need so much to keep them working, the oil being a lubricant more than a cleaner of swarf and spent abrasive.

I have used a water stone with oil, don't because it doesn't work.

Contrebasse,
We use water plus a squirt of liquid detergent on carborundum stones, to sharpen the (stainless steel) knives in our PM room. Works perfectly well, as you noted. Carborundum stones do have a very soft bond, and behave more like waterstones. They wear far more quickly than say, the green India synthetics. But there seems to be bit of variation in bond from batch to batch in stones even from the same maker (we go through a lot of stones, so get a fair sample).

Can't comment on oil + waterstones Schtoo, but I doubt 'lubrication' is the key role of the oil on an oilstone. My experience suggests the thinner the liquid, the better it works. I use kerosene, thickened slightly with a dash or two of motor oil just to slow it down a bit & stop it sloshing off the stone immediately (or soaking in instantly on coarser grits). My main reason for not using water is that I have enough trouble with rusting in our climate as it is, thankyou. Yeah, I know, you're supposed to clean and dry it all afterwards, but I just don't need any more water round the place for much of the year. (Though maybe I should re-think that in light of the current water crisis in S.E Qld?!)

And though I would probably use waterstones if I were starting out today, I'll stick with oilstones for the rest of my sentence, I think. Kept clean and de-glazed regularly, they cut almost as fast as waterstones (specially with kero!) and aren't as much bother to keep flat. Kinda used to the damn things after almost 50 years of using them.

Cheers,

In this country and in the west generaly, "japaneese waterstones" are a relativly new thing... only appearing in the last 20 years or so in common use.
They are a different story.

The manufactured carborundum stones I my opinion don't give a damn what you put on them but once you have used oil.... they are oil stones.

I'm with Ian... I use oil (of sorts) purely for corosion reasons.
I use air tool oil because its there and it thin.

Interesting I have seen a quaried stone in a major woodwork supplier that was labeled waterstone...... I bought a few..... hell they were cheap.
Interesting it was packed with an greasy oily substance all over the surface.

So there is this stone, in the ground, who is to say that it is a water stone or an oil stone.

Don't get me started.
cheers

Having been a chef for the past 20 years I have had to sharpen my fair share of knives and I use an oil stone. Same one for 10 years cos I let an apprentice of mine use my original and she dropped it and it cracked in half length ways.

I bought the oil stone and then boiled it pre-use for 20 mins to get all the oils etc out of it, then I just use warm water and liquid detergent and it works a treat. After I have finished I just run it under the tap and then let it dry on a clean cloth.

I have learnt over the years to sharpen using the whole surface area of the stone rather than just the middle which causes dishing of the staone and shortens its useful life span.

Pete

yeah thats what I like about using water - run it under the tap and all the grit washes away. I degreased my carborundum oilstone with engine degreaser.

Originally Posted by IanW

Can't comment on oil + waterstones Schtoo, but I doubt 'lubrication' is the key role of the oil on an oilstone. My experience suggests the thinner the liquid, the better it works.

Can't argue with that. I think that the oil works in a similar fashion to the water, in that it mainly washes away swarf and spent abrasive. However, cutting oil also serves a purpose when cutting things, usually a coolant, but some lubrication too. Not the primary job of the oil, but it does it all the same. Maybe stops swarf sticking to the abrasive or something, I dunno and don't care, just so long as it works.

On the oil in a water stone, it didn't kill the stone, but the thing refused to cut well and generally made a mess of things. Boiled the oil out with soapy water a few times, and it now works again, strictly water.


I use waterstones, since when in Rome...

(Plus, they be %$%$ cheap!!!)

Originally Posted by Schtoo

On the oil in a water stone, it didn't kill the stone, but the thing refused to cut well and generally made a mess of things. Boiled the oil out with soapy water a few times, and it now works again, strictly water.

Done this successfully before with an india stone, put washing soda in the water then boiled it up. Cleaned the stone nicely.

Schtoo, quit needling us with the cheap waterstone stories

What about on diamond plates? Oil or water?

Originally Posted by John G

What about on diamond plates? Oil or water?

Whichever you like. I use the same kero-plus-a-dash-of-heavier-oil for the oilstones, on my diamond plate. The blurb that came with it sez to use it dry, but it soon clogs with swarf, which doesn't brush off easily. The kero keeps it cutting well, and so far hasn't affected the bond (3 plus yrs.).
Others have said on this BB they use water successfully.

Cheers,

Don't know much about the present discussion, never having owned a water stone, but I do tend for lighter oil on my stones, like sewing machine or air oil. And kero to flush the surface ocassionally.

Originally Posted by Schtoo

cutting oil also serves a purpose when cutting things, usually a coolant, but some lubrication too. Not the primary job of the oil, but it does it all the same.

When I was doing my fitters course I remember being told the 3 functions of oil: to cool by transferring heat; to lubricate as a film; and to clean, by flushing away particles of wear metal. At least 2 of them would be applicable to sharpening, but could also be applied to water.

Cheers,

I agree with whoever said once an oil stone always an oil stone. I inherited the old mans and tried everything (never thought to boil it) but years and years of oil means that I only use it now for axe, machete and other cruder things the 1000/4000 Japanese waterstone gets all the nice jobs.

On a diamond stone I still recommend water and liquid detergent. I dont like oil because the oil creates a 'fill' in the stone. I use water because it is quick and easy. Knives are not sharpened at a great heat creating speed so the cooling factor is not a big concern.

Pete

I'd never used a waterstone until I came to Japan, It was oilstones all the way back home.
After buying my first waterstone (king 1000, 6000 combo), I tried it with oil...didnt work. ended up in the bin Didnt think of boiling the bugger.
Now exclusively use waterstones, love em, and wont go back to the oilstones. Waterstones take a lot more looking after (keeping them flat etc), but thats the price you pay for faster cutting.