Thread: Marking Gauge Vs Cutting Gauge

I have a few guages of both sorts and tend to favour the cutters as they are less likley to follow the grain. However on a mortice guage my pin one is a lot easier to set up than a 2 arm cutter type guage.
Regards
John

Hi Graeme

I posed exactly that question to Colen Clenton (who knows a thing or two about them), and his response was that marking gauges are good for marking up a row of drill holes in from an edge.

Only one small drawback to this technique is that it can be a bit hard to see where to put the pinprick because the beam can obscure the vision.

I have both and use the cutting gage all the time. The marking gage is in pristine condition. I keep it as one day I might make a display box for it.

Originally Posted by Christos

I have both and use the cutting gage all the time. The marking gage is in pristine condition. I keep it as one day I might make a display box for it.

What will you use to mark out the display box?

When I were a lad, and learnin' a thing or three about woodworkin' from some old blokes, they taught me to file my point gauge into a very fine chisel-point. They also insisted that the 'chisel-point' be slightly skewed, so that it wanted to track off away from the edge, which of course, it can't do, because the stock prevents it. That helps it to run true & not follow the grain so easily, though it does make a slightly wider mark. The 'chisel' point also works better across the grain, not tearing the fibres as severely as a point can do. So for about 25 years, I had one gauge, set up as described, & it did the job of both a cutting and point gauge. Sort of. Eventually, I realised it's good to have both. The half-pin/half-cutter gauge is a great idea for blokes out on a job site, where you want to minimise kit, but there is no reason why you shouldn't have the best of both worlds at home.

The trouble with a jack of all trades is that they are master of none, and there are plenty of places where a point gauge is simply more useful than a cutting gauge. I always use point gauges when marking along the grain. They track just fine for me, and leave a slightly wider line than a cutting gauge, which my aged optics find much more satisfactory. I'm a 'pusher' with gauges, i.e. I usually push the gauge away from me (some people like to pull them). Both systems work fine, as long as you keep the point 'trailing' the gauge. I've seen lots of newbies struggle with keeping marking gauges on track, and the reason has always been that they try to hold the pin too close to vertical. Let the pin trail & apply just enough downward pressure (whilst keeping the stock pushed against the edge of the work) to mark as bold a line as you require. I can't remember when I last had a problem with a point going off track due to sloped grain.

I was also taught to use the point to mark centres, & do so frequently. (Note to Brett: when marking a hole centre or other point, I hold the gauge rolled away from me, with the point just touching the wood. Ease it forward until the point is at the desired spot, then just roll the gauge toward you, keeping the pin point stationary, & press down to pot the mark. If your pin is too short, this won't work as well because you can't see the point, so maybe you need a slightly longer pin?).

Another place where a point gauge is invaluable is when you have to mark to a stopped point. Mark the position at which you wish to stop, as described, then when you push the gauge towards this point, it 'clicks' into the pre-potted hole & you know you're there.

A pin gauge is so easy to cobble up, I can't see any reason not to have one. Buy yourself a fancy cutting gauge as your main marking tool, if you like, but make yourself a simple pin gauge. You'll be happy you did!

Cheers,

Thanks guys for your replies, particularly you, Ian, for your especially thoughtful and considered response. Sometimes you really raise woodwork to an intellectual pursuit.

I resisted responding for a week while the old grey matter better absorbed and digested what you had said. My old cutting gauge will now be repurposed!

Your "micro-spade cutting gauge" is such a good idea, why isn't it universal? But you surprised me by not recommending it as the tool of preference for marking along the grain. The slight twist to the blade should assist in strait tracking (or minimising point wander) and it should also make the cut a little wider and a little more visible than either a strait cutting gauge or a marking gauge point. Seems a win-win tool in this situation, or am I missing something.

Also liked your suggestion for a "click-stop" for when marking stopped lines. I have always marked past the stops and then scraped or sanded away the superflous markings.



Fair Winds

Graeme

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

...Your "micro-spade cutting gauge" is such a good idea, why isn't it universal? But you surprised me by not recommending it as the tool of preference for marking along the grain. The slight twist to the blade should assist in strait tracking (or minimising point wander) and it should also make the cut a little wider and a little more visible than either a strait cutting gauge or a marking gauge point. Seems a win-win tool in this situation, or am I missing something.....

Graeme, the modified "spade-point" gauge was pretty common up to the 1950's, I think. I saw the method of filing the points advocated in several books of the time, & our manual training teacher, who showed us the method, was an ex-chippie who no doubt learnt it on the job. You're not missing anything, it's a very handy 'trick', if you only have one gauge, but by filing the point that way, you lose the sharp point, which is often useful in the ways I mentioned. It is also not as good as a dedicated cutting gauge cross-grain, but certainly works better than a simple point. If I had only one gauge, or wanted to limit the number of tools I was dragging about to job sites, I'd definitely carry a 'chisel point' gauge. But having a drawer-full of gauges of all sorts & sizes, I don't have to stint myself, at home...

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

... Also liked your suggestion for a "click-stop" for when marking stopped lines. I have always marked past the stops and then scraped or sanded away the superflous markings.

All credit belongs to my MT teacher - 'twas he who taught us that. He was very fussy about setting-out, and always urged us to mark out in a way that cost minimal effort to clean up, or preferably no superfluous marks that needed cleaning up at all. Not for him the scribe-lines left for posterity - you marked shallow & planed them away after glue-up, and if you had to mark out on a surface where it couldn't be planed or sanded away afterwards, a (very) sharp pencil line was allowed. That was all a lot easier to do when my eyes were only 13 years old - I need something more like a plough furrow, these days! He was also highly offended by over-cuts on half-lapped dovetail sockets, I recall. He told us with obvious disdain, "some cabinet makers do it this way for speed", but he made it clear he considered it a very inferior & sloppy way to work!

I have to say, the instruction we received in basic woodworking & technical drawing were truly excellent - all of the basic techniques were there, and spread over a morning a week for 2 years, so we got a fair bit of hands-on practice. At the time, I thought some of the exercises we did just making joints that were not part of anything was a bit boring, but many years down the track I realise just how thorough it was as basic training, and I am eternally grateful for it....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

I have to say, the instruction we received in basic woodworking & technical drawing were truly excellent - all of the basic techniques were there, and spread over a morning a week for 2 years, so we got a fair bit of hands-on practice.

I did TD for 5 years and thoroughly enjoyed it - I didn't make a career of it, but by crikey it's stood me well. I had two other electives to choose, and could have taken Woodwork.

However, I chose Commerce.

Commerce bored the kerrr-rap out of me within about two nano-seconds, and I had really enjoyed the term of woodwork I did in First Year (now year 7).

WHAT WAS I THINKING!

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

....WHAT WAS I THINKING!.....

Errr, if you were about 14 or 15 at the time, I can make a pretty good guess....

Thanks Ian

Thanks for yet another very well considered response.

Its sad that so many good ideas seem to have been forgotten, but great when resurected by people like you. Well done

I am reminded of Paul Sellars trick of cutting a small trench as a saw guide. I can remember a great uncle doing the same in the fifties and then it was largely forgotten until along came Paul.

We seem to be moving towards an era that appreciates quality. Let's hope!


Fair Winds
Graeme