Thread: Mathieson toothing plane mouth clogging help needed

Is the blade in the right way around? Can't tell from the pics.

Originally Posted by Pagie

Is the blade in the right way around? Can't tell from the pics.

Hi Pagie,

The blade was installed tooth side up/ bevel down.

Here is a pic of whats happening, mouth opening is about 1.5-2mm there is no bur on the toothed side of the blade. Plane sole is flat, even though the mouth appear blocked its still working ok.

Could be the amount you have the blade sticking out, you don't want to be seeing a shaving like in a normal plane , you want to see an accumulation of crumbs building up , the blade needs to be sticking out so that when you traverse the wood you hear the teeth of the blade just scratching off the high spots , you can then view where its hitting and where its missing on the timber, when the clear spots disappear and its all scratched up you are flat.

Rob

What are you wanting to glue up with the plane Joez ?

If I can ramble on a bit more about the plane, it's one of my favorite picking points that I see in ' HOW TO ' books.
As soon as I see it mentioned I get totally focused on how the writer is going to describe it , sometimes it's use is described correctly 10 % ,the rest of the time it is lost to writer as to it's true usefulness, glue adhesion my Ass!!

Get out a board and machine it up then plane it as if you want to prepare for a veneer job, do your best with what ever plane you think can get it the flattest , traverse it the finish off straight , then put a toothing plane over it and it will show up the high spots, IF the blade is sticking out the right amount .

If the blade is out so far that it rides the high points then also takes out the low points, you are not using the plane right ,the blade has to be sticking out just enough to get a scratch happening , Its is a super fine tuning tool that gets a ground as flat as possible for veneering .
When you work on old pieces from that have been veneered you get to see where the cabinet maker also used the toothing plane to prepare his solid non veneered surfaces for joining as well , surfaces like where the blocks get glued on to take feet at the bottom of a chest can be seen to be toothed , or solid surfaces further up the cabinet show toothing plane marks as well . It nearly always shows up on solid joints where the job was being veneered as well . "The plane was well tuned and at hand so why not do these extra parts as well " is my thinking on what was going through the cabinet makers mind .
The Glue of the day is the reason they needed it , hide glue shrinks back and pulls the polished surface in with it,with thinly veneered surfaces , post 1840 roughly. Or it shrinks back and if the veneer is thick enough, pre 1840 roughly, and there is to much glue underneath it can let go of the veneer years later. Tight joinery with it and its perfect glue , gappy and it fails.

Toothing planes are a great tool for glueing up with modern glues as well , I use them for veneer jobs with Hide glue mostly, or pva and sometimes two pack , hammer or caul in a press .

cheers Rob

Thanks for the info Rob, I will give it another try tomorrow with a lighter cut.

I noticed even though the plane looked clogged it continued to work without any major issues. Looking closer at plane, the blade wasn't quite square to the sole and there's no play to allow for any lateral adjustment.

I am veneering some Black Walnut to a Parana (Spelling?) Pine substrate for a highboy. I was planning on cutting my own veneer at about 2mm thick and was gong to use hide glue with a little urea to buy me a little extra glue up time.

Joez

Originally Posted by joez

Thanks for the info Rob, I will give it another try tomorrow with a lighter cut.

I noticed even though the plane looked clogged it continued to work without any major issues. Looking closer at plane, the blade wasn't quite square to the sole and there's no play to allow for any lateral adjustment.Joez

Sounds like the plane body has shrunk a little , you want a touch of lateral adjustment at least so you may have to take a little timber out of the plane, and set it up with the right grind so you can adjust it parallel with the sole

Originally Posted by joez

I am veneering some Black Walnut to a Parana (Spelling?) Pine substrate for a highboy. I was planning on cutting my own veneer at about 2mm thick and was gong to use hide glue with a little urea to buy me a little extra glue up time.

Joez

Parana Pine ? I cant say I know of it.
Cutting your own and using it , Sounds good Joez , when ever I do that I have pressed with clamps.
Ive never used urea, just a few old cast iron irons on a hot plate and a pot of water with a rag for putting it down with a veneer hammer when I have laid sliced veneer.
Rob

Originally Posted by joez

Thanks for the info Rob, I will give it another try tomorrow with a lighter cut.

I am veneering some Black Walnut to a Parana (Spelling?) Pine substrate for a highboy. I was planning on cutting my own veneer at about 2mm thick and was gong to use hide glue with a little urea to buy me a little extra glue up time.

Joez

Hi Joez,

My understanding is that you'd want the glue to gel up as fast as possible if veneering with a hammer. If using cauls and/or a press then the urea may be helpful.

Have a look at these:

Hand veneering 1 - YouTube

Hand Veneering 2 - YouTube


I use his technique. Works a treat.


Good luck,

Paul

Originally Posted by homesy135

Hi Joez,

My understanding is that you'd want the glue to gel up as fast as possible if veneering with a hammer. If using cauls and/or a press then the urea may be helpful.


Paul

Thanks Paul, Good videos. The Urea is only to buy me a little more time on the more complicated portions of the glue up, for regular work I agree regular glue is the way to go.

Originally Posted by auscab

Sounds like the plane body has shrunk a little , you want a touch of lateral adjustment at least so you may have to take a little timber out of the plane, and set it up with the right grind so you can adjust it parallel with the sole


Rob

I was thinking of taking too the blade with a water stone to reduce the blade width a touch, do you see any issues with that? I seems a lot easier than messing with the plane body.


joez

sounds good , take it from the blade,

I have a few toothing planes, One thing I never knew till I read it somewhere here, possibly posted by WW? not sure ? Was that there were two tooth sizes to be had when choosing a plane a coarse and a fine tooth. Then a few weeks back I went to the HTPAA tool sale and picked up a toothing blade off a table and it was one of the fine ones . Ive always used the coarse and they have done the job well. I grabbed the fine one though.

When I cut my own veneers , I machine the board then tooth the gluing surface before I cut it off the board. you can see that done on old furniture as well, A toothing plane in the toolbox meant you could be out at some remote workshop selecting your veneer from the boards you possibly even sawed yourself , imagine being in some town in Tasmania in 1830, plenty of wood to be had but no veneer supplier

With hide glue, and the veneer hammer ,a few things I do is , I like to glue size the veneer first and dry it , and the ground, Try laying a flame Mahogany sheet with the hammer or a figured wood where the grain is going up and down and you will see why you need to stop the thin wood breathing. Another thing I like to do is have a dollop of glue on top so the hammer glides , helps to stop the breathing wood as well.

When I am using sawn though I prefer pressing , and if it's big ,I prefer PVA . I did have a press for a while , and I did play around with heated cauls .

Rob

Hi All,

Reducing the blade width slightly and a lighter cut has resolved my issues

Thanks everyone for all your help If it weren't for the people on this forum I would have just tossed the toothing plane in a cabinet and be done with it.

The Walnut and Pine is being delivered tommorow, cant wait to make a start on the highchest, will do a WIP when I get started.



Joe Z