Thread: Large Saw, Medium 'Log'

That's the good ~30cm ... but we have hit our straps now and progressing well.

See the end section ... we had issues at the start ... a little side-dressing was done as we went along.

When I started it off, most of the effort was put into trying to keep a straight (not too hard) and plumb (!) cut.

Fortunately (I guess) ... as I have experienced before ... a mistake that kinda bums you out in one context can be a valuable lesson an save you a much bigger mistake later on. In this case, in the fairly simple case of wanting to hand-cut a scarf joint for my pergola in 2" hardwood I found that it is possible to be dead on your line on the top and front edge and still wander off at an angle underneath. Of course into your work instead of into the waste.

I was somewhat annoyed at the time and put it down to trying to complete something after losing the light ... but afterwards (duh) I realised it was about the saw cutting more to one side than the other.

I am often guilty of forgetting about "stoning" the sides of a saw ... not that I've filed that many ... then scratching my head for a sec when it cuts a curve. So I was partly primed to be on the lookout for a drifting cut underneath, which would be a nightmare in a 5" x 1.5m log.

There was also some big cracks running at the end I (randomly) chose to start at ... which maybe didn't help with the control ... but better to screw up that end I guess. I ended up using the large file in the pictures twice along the "non-etch" face and a total of five times along the "etch" (there isn't one) face. It made a huge difference to the tracking ... but the last two passes of the file made only micro-adjustments.

I'd say I spent about 4 x 20mins of easy sawing to cut down it in the end. I used the saw as I received it ... it felt sharp and ready to go, the breasting looked a pretty consistent curve, but the gullets were inconsistent. I don't know how they were cut. The angles are sharp and acute, which might suggest a cnc-type cutter ... but the inconsistency would suggest not, I'd think.

The chalk marks are roughly 4"-5" apart ... I cut that far then flipped over and cut from the other side. When it was clear the tracking was fine, I could cut down two marks and only be off by a couple mm at most on the underside.

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The first day was humid. The second day when I finished off the cut was lightly raining.
Not that much sawdust from the whole process, really.

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20150409_153648 (Medium).jpg The nice end ... 20150409_153724 (Medium).jpg and the end I started with ... 20150409_153742 (Medium).jpg 20150409_153804 (Medium).jpg

The curve of the toothline, and the gullets ...

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Aren't docking saws meant for crosscut trimming wood to length?
Wouldn't you be better off using a rip saw?

I meant 'docking saw' in terms of the physical format ... with the heavy-duty riveted metal handle.

(comfortable too)

The teeth are pretty wild, but definitely set up to rip (with a bit of fleam). Some of them are even positive rake.


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Originally Posted by pmcgee

......The teeth are pretty wild, but definitely set up to rip (with a bit of fleam). Some of them are even positive rake....

Struth, Paul, you're not wrong there! Those would have to be the best set of cows & calves (not to mention yearlings & a few old crackers), I've ever seen! I guess it supports what I've heard said, that even a poor job of sharpening is better than no sharpening. But it does help to explain why you had so much trouble keeping it straight - fleamed teeth are very hard to keep running straight on long-grain cuts, whatever size of saw. I think I'd be doing some serious dentistry on that saw before laying into baulks of hardwood like yours. I've said it before, & I'll say it again, you're a glutton for punishment, young man!

They are teeth only a mother could love.
Is that a 36" model? What's the average TPI? How much breasting over the length?
I'm wondering whether you can run it through a Foley retoother.
It can do 4 PPI and can use a breasted carrier.

A little on docking saws:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/newslett...collection.htm

Here is a stainless one.
Guess you can leave this one outside:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-HENR...p2047675.l2557

32" along the toothline, 36" including the handle, gullets about 10mm deep.

A couple of samples ...
9 teeth in 4" = 2.25 tpi
7 teeth in 3" = 2.33 tpi

so approx 3ppi

I'm not 100% sure whether "cows and calves" still applies here.
I always took that to mean "uneven teeth, potentially uneven gullets".

With this saw, the teeth are all even - in the sense that they follow a proper curve.
All the very tips are along a correct curve for even cutting.

When some teeth are lower than others, (especially when some teeth are missing) there is the potential to come to a sudden halt in the cut. But this ran very smoothly along a very full stroke.

I took this as an indication of the large breast I was in charge of ... about 10mm gap at each end.

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Paul

The tooth pattern looks to me like a combination in that there are six small teeth followed by a gullet nearly twice the depth.

I would expect that type of saw to excel in green softwood. I think it would be difficult to control in seasoned hardwood. Under the circumstances you did well and your perseverance is to be commended.

If you have any more to do for that project I would be using one of your largest handsaws and no more than 4ppi. I feel certain you would have a 28" specimen (maybe a 30") floating around somewhere. I would not attempt it unless it was super sharp, particularly in a lump of timber that thick.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

The tooth pattern looks to me like a combination in that there are six small teeth followed by a gullet nearly twice the depth.

I thought that perhaps it was made out of a crosscut toothed saw like this maybe ...


I also thought it might just be a modernish plate of steel. I haven't measured it for taper.

Originally Posted by IanW

But it does help to explain why you had so much trouble keeping it straight - fleamed teeth are very hard to keep running straight on long-grain cuts, whatever size of saw. I think I'd be doing some serious dentistry on that saw before laying into baulks of hardwood like yours.

I think you guys are misunderstanding the situation. The wonky cut developed from the two *sets* of teeth (unintentional saw pun) cutting differently. I dressed it a few times as I went and it ended up tracking excellently for a metre.

This video is one-handed wonky cam which I took before I the one above resting on the log.
(you can hear the saw moving at an imperfect angle off from vertical)

The chalk marks are about 4" apart and I was flipping the log at roughly each one at first. As I became more and more confident the tracking was right, I was cutting along two sections before flipping.

2min 30sec shows the narrower bottom uppermost ... the last 20sec it has been flipped to top uppermost.

I did promise a (... or more) boring video ... so here ya go.

The main point just being to show the effect of side-dressing the teeth (which occurs at the 3min, 8min, 11min and 17min marks).

The first dressing had it a good deal sorted ... and by the 11min mark we were basically golden.

(There's also quite a bit to see of your own technique in recording yourself, too. Hmmm )

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

If you have any more to do for that project I would be using one of your largest handsaws

Yes ... I don't know. I found a use for a piece of metal I'd picked up recently.
Using an 9" sized disk in a 4" grinder (yeah I know) it was taking a long time to make a cut in the 3mm or 4mm steel.
When I tried one of those ultra-thin 4" discs, it cut along quickly like a little laser ... being something like a quarter as wide.


I don't know if the same would apply to a handsaw. My original plan was to try different ripsaws with different setups as I went along. I had put aside 5 or 6 of them to test out. That was quite a way back.


That saw was cutting with that fresh aggressive feeling 80% of the way. I'm not sure a handsaw would last that long on a sharpening.

I don't know how the factors shape up ... mass, length, #teeth, amount of metal per tooth, gullet size, kerf.

Big saw = more length, but also less teeth per inch. 72 teeth in total. 1.35kg. kerf ~2.1mm (84 thou)

A full-size 28" ("8 inside D") x 5ppi (4tpi) = 112 teeth. 0.89kg. kerf ~1.5mm (60 thou)

[28" x 4ppi = 3tpi = 84 teeth]


The big saw has almost no taper ... 1.4mm (56 thou) near the teeth ... 1.3mm (52 thou) along the back

The 28" Disston ... 1.0mm (40 thou) near the teeth ... from 0.4mm to 0.8mm along the back (16 thou to 32 thou)