Thread: Melbourne Tool Company

Got the same email.
Looks as though they are Chinese made tools with Aussie branding. That said they may be excellent tools, many folk seem to be happy with their Woodriver/Luban/Quasheng etc planes.

Yeah, it's also mentioned in the AWR newsletter. Quote:

"The two new handplanes were designed by Melbourne furniture designer maker Alexsandra Pontonio (shown above) and made from clear coated cast iron featuring components made from brass, stainless steel with maple handles. To complement these low angle planes MTC offers three blades at 25, 38 and 50° cutting angles...."

Their own website says "Designed and developed in Melbourne, Australia" so I assumed they were being made in Melbourne like the Henry Eckert tools being made in Adelaide, but now you've sensitised me, I note that nowhere does it say made in Australia. So you may be on the money & they are actually made offshore. Maple is hardly an indigenous wood & the stainless steel lever cap on the LA jack is rather reminiscent of a certain brand out of the big land to the north of us.

In either case, it begs the question - how much "design" was necessary for tools that look pretty much identical to existing ones? The company is not saying what is actually so superior about them & there is nothing apparent from the pictures to suggest they are radically different from the several brands of similar planes available already.....

Hmmm.....

If you look up the products on the Timbecon website and then go to the Descriptions tab, the Country of Origin is "Designed in Melbourne Australia Manufactured in China".

Originally Posted by Tij

If you look up the products on the Timbecon website and then go to the Descriptions tab, the Country of Origin is "Designed in Melbourne Australia Manufactured in China".

A well-tested business model, of course, but one does get the impression the ad copy is deliberately obfuscating by playing up the "designed in Australia" part & not mentioning the rest. I'd like some information on what 'design' was necessary (other than the shape of the lever-cap, which is different from the Luban/WR lot), and why they should be considered in any way superior to the rest of the pack. They may well be, for all I know, but there is nowt on either website to persuade me of that....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

A well-tested business model, of course, but one does get the impression the ad copy is deliberately obfuscating by playing up the "designed in Australia" part & not mentioning the rest. I'd like some information on what 'design' was necessary (other than the shape of the lever-cap, which is different from the Luban/WR lot), and why they should be considered in any way superior to the rest of the pack. They may well be, for all I know, but there is nowt on either website to persuade me of that....

Cheers,

Bordering on misrepresentation imo. I have a similar view to IanW - what design was done in Australia??? Are there any patents to prove any actual innovation in design??

Unfortunately the ACCC has much bigger fish to pursue - i.e. Telcos, Oil Companies, 7-11 etc to worry about wood working tool and machinery suppliers. However that should not stop us from putting them on notice to actually back their claims and to provide the service and support for the tools, machinery etc that they import and supply.

Personally I'm really annoyed about the lack of spare parts availability for wood working machinery on brands like Woodfast, Jet / Powermatic, and the companies who imported / sold the "grey imports" and who then will not support their customers with spare parts that will require replacement - bandsaw guides, sander feed belts etc. Appalling imo! (rant over)

Please note - I have started another thread on "parallel imports" as "Have you been getting the run around?"

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

Bordering on misrepresentation imo. I have a similar view to IanW - what design was done in Australia??? Are there any patents to prove any actual innovation in design??

Unfortunately the ACCC has much bigger fish to pursue - i.e. Telcos, Oil Companies, 7-11 etc to worry about wood working tool and machinery suppliers. However that should not stop us from putting them on notice to actually back their claims and to provide the service and support for the tools, machinery etc that they import and supply.

Personally I'm really off about the lack of spare parts availability for wood working machinery on brands like Woodfast, Jet / Powermatic, and the companies who imported / sold the "grey imports" and who then will not support their customers with spare parts that will require replacement - bandsaw guides, sander feed belts etc. Appalling imo! (rant over)

And don't forget brushes for the motors.

Originally Posted by IanW

A well-tested business model, of course, but one does get the impression the ad copy is deliberately obfuscating by playing up the "designed in Australia" part & not mentioning the rest. I'd like some information on what 'design' was necessary (other than the shape of the lever-cap, which is different from the Luban/WR lot), and why they should be considered in any way superior to the rest of the pack. They may well be, for all I know, but there is nowt on either website to persuade me of that....

Cheers,

If you do a side by side comparison between the Luban and the MTC LAJ specs you can see instantly how the LTC has been optimised for the Australian market:

1: The sole of the LTC is 2mm SHORTER than the Luban
2: The sole of the LTC is 1mm WIDER than the Luban
3: The cost of the LTC is $50 CHEAPER than the Luban

And that $50 difference is only an introductory offer.
The only "design" difference is the shape of the tote.
I'd rather support an actually Australian made product like those from Henry Eckert Tools.
A company where you can actually talk to the developers of the product if you have an issue.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

... you can see instantly how the LTC has been optimised for the Australian market:

1: The sole of the LTC is 2mm SHORTER than the Luban
2: The sole of the LTC is 1mm WIDER than the Luban

The emoji is a giveaway, CT!

Alternatively, those variances are well within the production runs of Qiangsheng.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

The emoji is a giveaway, CT!

Alternatively, those variances are well within the production runs of Qiangsheng.

I'm a huge fan of Luban (or it's other global names). This MTC brand never raised a purchase interest for me, simply because I've got a Luban/QS/Woodriver/Juuma L.A. plane already, which is the best plane out there (at any price point). I've also got every block plane they've ever made and they're the benchmark as well. I've always felt that their price point will steadily/eventually match other premium brands (WR already is). Although moot to me, I was only curious about the steel used in the MTC blade; because that's what matters most (especially in a low angle plane). When I saw it was less than ideal HSS, I instantly switched off and moved on. I want something sharp (for end grain) and not HSS - which I already have in Luban (hence moot). I automatically wrote MTC off as a cheap/nasty alternative to the premium Luban brand (i.e MTC is a dodgy budget offering, that will make you cry twice), which appears to be so, but I didn't consider the future of Luban however, at least until I discovered this thread.

Whether these MTC planes are made in the same factory as Luban (which I'm on the fence about), I wonder if we're are seeing the end of cheap, premium quality Luban/QS/Juuma brands in Australia and the only option will be a premium priced Woodriver. Maybe future Luban imports will match Woodriver/Veritas/Lie Nielsen price points instead, that is, once existing stock gets sold. I cannot help but feel this MTC is the budget nasty alternative to anything premium sold at Timbecon. The first thing to ask is why has Timbecon introduced a so called competitor product to the cheap but premium Luban range. Either Luban will no longer be sold at Timbecon, or it's about to get more expensive like everything else post covid lockdown (and stay that way). So buy now while you still can (I suspect) .... (edit: in regard to Luban LA BU planes, they're already sold out - looks like it's been replaced and with identical RRP).

Note: Bessey have been steadily phased out at Timbecon over the last 12 months (i.e replaced by Pony products). Veritas has gone from Timbecon's range entirely (because everyone bought Luban). Luban/QS/WR/etc. products have been very hard to source anywhere in the world (probably because of Covid) and I wonder what will happen to Luban at Timbecon as a result.

dschumy why not give us a review clearly to make such assessments you own one of these planes ( otherwise it is all hearsay)

MTC is Timbecon

Originally Posted by China

dschumy why not give us a review clearly to make such assessments you own one of these planes ( otherwise it is all hearsay)

MTC is Timbecon

I'm not going to bother with a review of a second rate cutting material (M2 HSS). Timbecon's website states the MTC's blade is made of HSS and that's not hearsay. Like I said, I switched off subsequently, because it's far from ideal. It doesn't matter what else is good about the plane after that, so a review is a waste of time.

Luban is the opposite and the best I've seen; it's extraordinary and plenty (including Paul Sellers) have reviewed it as such. Hence, I don't need to review Luban either. If a review is what you want though, this should suffice: I like them so much, I've bought nearly everything they sell (including spare parts) in numerous labeled variants from across the globe. There are some things Luban that I don't like however, such as their chisels - I regret buying them - basically for the same reasons I won't touch MTC and M2 steel.

MTC is made in China apparently and not in Melbourne - MTC might be an exclusive Timbecon contract though, as you allude to. What might be hearsay is whether MTC is made in the same factory as Luban (or not), but suggesting the possibility is reasonable. As stated, I'm on the fence about that one, but would like to know either way. It's moot to me now of course, as I have my set of planes already (plus spare parts), but the point I was trying to make, is whether Timbecon are swapping out Luban with a nasty, cry twice branding. Alternatively, are they introducing a flawed budget model to compliment the premium Luban range (which will probably go up in price once existing stock sell out).

I've always felt a budget premium brand cannot remain that way and over time that's steadily been happening. I bought my #8 when it was $AUD300 and the last time I checked it was $AUD500 at Timbecon (edit: this morning it's now $AUD539.00 and also sold out - wow!). I'm greatly relieved I bought mine years ago. Perhaps I wouldn't cry twice about a HSS blade, but rather I'd only cry once, due to never getting over it .

dschumy, could you expand a bit on why you have such a dislike of HSS? I have several HSS blades, & I don't know what the alloy is for a couple (there are quite a few HSSs!), but a couple I know to be M2 or at least that's what the tool steel blank I made them from is supposed to be. All take & hold a keen edge, not quite to the standard of more sexy alloys like PMV-11, but they hang on in abrasive woods better than O1 or 1084 & are entirely satisfactory for my purposes. Both the HSS & PM blades take a bit more effort to sharpen than the plainer HCS blades I have, but I can live with that.

I don't think you can make many assertions about M2 or any tool steel without specifying the temper of the blade you are comparing - M2 can be tempered to anywhere between ~57 to 63 Rc, and any of those hardness levels may be suitable for specific purposes & quite unsuitable for others. The stuff I bought as M2 is intended for metal cutting & would be at the higher end of hardness I expect, which should also make it a bit more brittle, but as far as I can tell, chipping has not been a problem. I have spent years pursuing the hardest steels I could find, for plane blades - I don't enjoy sharpening for its own sake & would much rather be getting on with the job. However, as with so much else in life there are pros & cons with any of the steels used for blades & I've come to accept there is no perfect blade material & it's unlikely there ever will be one that satisfies all requirements for all woodworkers.

For working with 'decent' woods, I'm more than happy with my Hock blades. They are pretty basic, O1 steel, but Hock manage to harden & temper O1 to a sweet spot that is a good compromise between toughness & ease of sharpening, I like that they last a good while, but are easily touched up for the fine work at the end. However, if I'm working with bull-oak or gidgee, I really appreciate the staying power of my PM-V11 or HSS blades....

Horses for courses...
Chers,

I’m in the process of bringing another line of tools onto the Australian market. The Welcome Creek Tool Company, initially it will be the Tools 4 Tools range with the first product being the non-binary J plane. Next to follow will be the premium Peter Dutton range to coincide with the Chinese New Year. Extensive research was undertaken by a local woodworker to design an innovative logo WCTC applied to the lever cap. For those with a yen to pay in $AU the price is thought to be competitive. No change that I don’t think I know. Watch out for the Fella Down Under range.