Thread: Metal files - plane challenge- which kit?

I will get some pics and links of the files I use.
Up later for you.

But you can actually do quite a bit with not much(files that is).
Says the man with probably 25 or more [emoji3064].

Cheers Matt.

Agree with Matt on both points (I have an excessive number of files, but they aren't all needed for any one plane). Asking what files to buy is just like asking what saw to buy, there are even more sizes, styles & tpis in files than saws (many more!). I've given a sample of what I'd use making a medium-sized dovetailed plane in the introduction to my 'manual'. That's a pretty basic set, but will get you through the job.

You are far better off buying files from a supplier like Blackwoods (no affiliations, etc.) don't waste your money on the generic junk from hardware store chains. They'll cost you a little bit more but last 4 times longer.

The trickiest part is filing the corners of the pins & tails. The 'proper' fil to do this job is a barette, which can cut into a corner. Ordinary 3-square triangular files have rounded corners & even a 4" DEST leaves too much in teh corners. You can get near enough with a fine needle file, but they are slow, and the very narrow sides make it too easy to cut grooves instead of keeping the bottoms of the cut-out nice & flat (it's important to keep those bits very accurate because they are mating surfaces, and the better they fit, the tighter your D/Ts will be).

I make my own 'barette' fiiles. I have a tin full of spent saw files, most of which are wrecked on the corners, but the majority of the sides are still in pretty good nick, so I just grind off the teeth on two sides. This gives me "safe" edges which will cut nicely into the corners. Even if you have to grind the edges off a new file, it's far cheaper than buying the machinists barettes, they are eye-wateringly expensive (like $50 for a file with only one cutting face. )

Cheers,

Just put something up here, (post #51)
As others might find it helpful,
Hope that was ok.

Cheers Matt.

A lot of the stuff around these days is "meh" at best, even the brands that used to be well regarded like Nicholson and Bahco are not what they used to be, and the really good stuff costs a bomb.

If you can afford to wait for shipping, I have bought from a couple of guys on ebay who have new-old-stock of the good stuff (Swiss made Vallorbe, Made in Aus Wiltshire, Made in USA Nicholson and others) and they don't kill you on postage charges
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/m.html?_...=file&_sacat=0
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/m.html?_...=file&_sacat=0

Just be careful looking around their stores, it's very easy to spend a lot more than you originally planned

Obligatory disclaimer: I have no financial relationship with either of them, just a happy customer.

WP

I really like Wiltshire files. I don't have nearly enough of them. See Elan's first link.

Regards
Paul

Edit my mistake

I'm very pleased I'm not a metal worker.

One could easily spend a LOT of money!

Originally Posted by woodPixel

I'm very pleased I'm not a metal worker.

One could easily spend a LOT of money!

Of course you could always be a wood AND metalworker!

Some 9 years ago I got a nice little metalwork lathe for nothing. Have Ended up spending at least double the Nominal value of the lathe in tooling, measuring gear etc for it.

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

A lot of the stuff around these days is "meh" at best, even the brands that used to be well regarded like Nicholson and Bahco are not what they used to be, and the really good stuff costs a bomb.

If you can afford to wait for shipping, I have bought from a couple of guys on ebay who have new-old-stock of the good stuff (Swiss made Vallorbe, Made in Aus Wiltshire, Made in USA Nicholson and others) and they don't kill you on postage charges
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/m.html?_...=file&_sacat=0
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/m.html?_...=file&_sacat=0

Just be careful looking around their stores, it's very easy to spend a lot more than you originally planned

Obligatory disclaimer: I have no financial relationship with either of them, just a happy customer.

I must be strong and resist, be strong(Darling do you still have two kidneys, just a question)

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

I'm very pleased I'm not a metal worker.

One could easily spend a LOT of money!

Tell me about it...
You have to spend hundreds just to be able to measure the stuff you're making

I'm very pleased I'm not a metal worker

Try making jewellery I buy Valorbe files $30-40 each, escapement flies $15 each the cheap stuff is just not value for money

So fellow chums, it is a matter of buying a few different types off various makers?

There isn't a newbie selection that I can get away with at a minimum?

Tomorrow I'll look up the first cut second cut thing. Perhaps there is a finish cut?

Flat, round, half round, triangular and a pointy rats tail?

This sound about right?

.
..
China! On jewellery! I actually have another question on that but this is the wrong thread. I need to make hoops of 4mm stainless steel, join them and make that join invisible.... Hoops are anywhere from 50mm to 200mm.....

Also! Joining 1mm twisted wire for the same job ....


Oh no! Down the rabbit hole I go!

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Tomorrow I'll look up the first cut second cut thing. Perhaps there is a finish cut?

Files are described as "Smooth," (fine) "2nd Cut" (medium) & "Bastard." (Coarse)

There is also single cut and double cut in these grades.

If you care to log into this site you can look at the Simonds File Facts. Dated 1943 it is still relevant.

File Facts : Simonds Saw and Steel Co. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Same location. Different company. Nicholson. When they were a revered name back in 1957. Not so much today.

Nicholson File Catalog N-S : 1957 : Nicholson File Co. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Regards
Paul

Woodpixel, the point I was trying to make is that there is no one "basic set fits all", it depends very much on what you intend to make. Design your plane, even if it's only a few sketches on the back of an envelope. Think through how it's going to go together, and what each preparatory step entails, and that will inform you of what tool(s) will be necessary for each step. You should be able to get away with 2or 3 files even on a complex build, unless you go wildly overboard with details. Your files may not be perfect for each & every step and slow you down a bit, but hey, you've still got over 5 months, so there's no rush to finish by next week.

If you gave us a few broad hints as to what you have in mind, we could perhaps make some more specific suggestions. For some metal planes like the laminated shoulder planes I've described elsewhere, all you'd need is a single flat-file and maybe a round file to clean up the escapement profile, but if you are working in brass, you could simply use sandpaper wrapped around a firm sanding block or dowel for the entire job, 120 grit paper removes brass at a very satisfying rate. Rough down & move to finer grades to get the degree of polish desired. With care, no-one would know a file had never been near your plane. However, there is no doubt a file or two would speed things up a bit (not all that much) but also make it easier to maintain accuracy. I suppose you could even make a steel plane the same way, but it would be very much slower than using a file in that case.

If you intend joining metal pieces by dovetailing, then I can't see any alternative to files. You can remove the waste very cleanly by sawing, good enough that the edges to be peened don't need any cleaning up, but I doubt you would get the bottoms of the pins & tails sufficiently clean for a good join off-saw (I certainly can't). So cleaning up to your layout lines is essential for those. This is one job where I cannot see a substitute for using a file (unless you use a milling machine). The corners have to be sharp & clean or pins & tails won't go together. A few thou of wood in the corner of a wooden dovetail will easily yield when you tap the joint together, but with metal, it can stop you dead in your tracks.

Metal-working has its quirks, but the basic principles are the same as for woodworking - cut & fit your parts as precisely as you can. Metal has the big advantage of malleability - you can close some gaps in wood by hammering them (no less a person than Tage Frid has admitted to bruising the end of a dovetail occasionally, to hide a small gap), but not as thoroughly or as satisfyingly as you can with metal! The biggest difference is it's a little slower to work, which is ok, because some steps do need to be a little more precise & it's better to sneak up on the fit in that case. Otherwise it's like working wood - sharp tools, used with as much precision as you can muster.

Practicing on some scrap will very quickly give you the feel of the medium & how it responds to what you intend to make with it.

Indeed all files come in three levels of "cut" from "smooth" to "second" to "bastard". The actual tpi goes down with increasing size, so a 12 inch flat bastard file has very much coarser teeth than a 6 inch bastard cut. "Mill" files have much finer teeth than "flat" files of the same size/shape. "Warding" files are much thinner than flat files of the same length. You need to be vaguely familiar with file terminology if buying from a big supplier or you'll get lost very quickly in the range available. I wasn't joking when I said files come in more lengths, tpis & variants than saws (many more!)...

Cheers,